Jon S. von TetzchnerHave you tried the @Vivaldi?
This poll is to test engagement on #Mastodon in comparison to #Twitter. Please share.
Yes, I love it!
No, I will try it!
Poll ended at .
Adrian Widerski
Tritโ@grymasTysiaclecia You can make it as simple as you want. There is no obligation to go in the settings again once you set them at your tastes, actually.
@TritTriton I know, but I always keep in mind that somewhere there is a settings-ocean, lol :D
@grymasTysiaclecia @TritTriton, typically what happens is that people find out what is important to them and leave the rest. Depending on what you need, I would maybe consider things like:
- The pause button, that stops videos and blanks the browser.
- The page capture function. I do not know about you, but for me being able to capture parts of or the whole page is useful.
- Tracker blocker.
In any case, I hope we will give us a try again. ๐
Peter@TritTriton @grymasTysiaclecia That ignores a few typical problems:
- To "make it as simple as you want", you'll have to spend time to find all the settings required for that.
- Not all settings sync, so you'll have to go in the settings to change them for every new install.
- Vivaldi doesn't use defaults that have been common among browsers for a decade, for example alt-d for address bar, so you need to go into settings even if all you want is a mindless switch from your main browser
- To "make it as simple as you want", you'll have to spend time to find all the settings required for that.
- Not all settings sync, so you'll have to go in the settings to change them for every new install.
- Vivaldi doesn't use defaults that have been common among browsers for a decade, for example alt-d for address bar, so you need to go into settings even if all you want is a mindless switch from your main browser
@pbb @grymasTysiaclecia I use F8 to get the focus on the address bar (Ctrl-L too, but I reassigned it to the reader mode), F9 to get it in the page.
Yeah, you CAN make it simple, but once itโs done, you should not spend more time in the settings, should you?
@TritTriton @grymasTysiaclecia "but once it's done, you shouldn't spend more time in the settings, should you?" No you shouldn't, but see my point nr 2.
jakub 
FlorianTischner@FlorianTischner @jakub @Vivaldi, interesting.
Maybe you should give us a try. You just might be positively surprised. ๐
@jon @jakub @Vivaldi I really don't want to be read as confrontational or dismissive of your work, but there's little there to entice me to switch from Firefox with an ad-blocking add-on.
You're distributing it as closed source software and are a commercial enterprise. It's unclear to me how you make money from me installing it (and you have to make money from me installing it in a capitalist society). This unclear business-model is enough to turn me away.
@jon @jakub @Vivaldi The web taught me that if I'm not paying for the product I /am/ the product.
Again, this is not meant to be a dig at you or your product. For all I know the browser is great and from the work you've been doing in the public during the last decades you're a trustworthy guy. But the presentation leaves open questions for a security-minded/paranoid reader.
@FlorianTischner @jakub @Vivaldi
I get you. I am very angry about surveillance economy and we have been very clear about that at Vivaldi as well. Feel free to read about it here:
https://vivaldi.com/blog/its-time-to-ban-surveillance-based-advertising/
I understand why you are skeptical, but you may be backing the wrong horse. We have a long history here, both at Opera and now Vivaldi. We have been true to our word. In fact the reason for Vivaldi existing is to be true to our users. Those we had at Opera.
@FlorianTischner @jakub @Vivaldi, now this is interesting.
We are actually very clear on our business model:
https://vivaldi.com/blog/vivaldi-business-model/
It is similar to the business model of Mozilla, but Mozilla corporation makes a lot more money than we do. More than $400 million.
We are a small company trying to do the right thing. We do not have outside investors. We focus on building great software and we try to do the right thing with regards to our users.
Cymaphore@FlorianTischner I bought a T-shirt last year from them, hoping, it will help reducing their dependency on other sources of income :-) .........
Would buy ten more of them if they would make it open source - or at least continue to stay out of the "selling your users" business.
@jon @jakub @Vivaldi
@cymaphore @FlorianTischner @jakub @Vivaldi
Thank you for that. I think you will find that our business model is very clean. It is described here:
https://vivaldi.com/blog/vivaldi-business-model/
We are very clear on what we think about the surveillance economy as well:
https://vivaldi.com/blog/its-time-to-ban-surveillance-based-advertising/
Our code is mostly fully open and at least readable. We have considered taking the last couple of steps, but it is a big decision.
@jon Didn't want to imply that it isn't. Just wanted to express that I hope it remains clean.
@FlorianTischner @jakub @Vivaldi
@FlorianTischner @jakub @Vivaldi
@cymaphore @FlorianTischner @jakub @Vivaldi
We kept clean during my 17 years at Opera and Vivaldi is almost 10 years old as well, although it feels like we are very young.
We understand that we have to continue to prove that we can be trusted.
DuncanMSussexPol@DuncanMSussexPol @Vivaldi, glad to hear that. I hope you introduce it to your friends as well.
SamuelJohnson@samueljohnson @Vivaldi, glad you are with us.
Tiram
Stephen Drennan
Daniel Wentsch@klickreflex The polls asks for if you tried it, not if you liked it or not.
@TritTriton I tried it and didnโt like it, that is not an option.
Robert "Szkodnix" 
looopTools@looopTools The polls asks for if you tried it, not if you liked it or not.
@TritTriton it said Yes, I love it <- that is pretty much if you liked it
@looopTools My bad: I saw that laterโฆ orz
Smow 
Nadru@TritTriton @jon I know, but I kept on using Opera instead of going to Vivaldi and feel a bit guilty lol
@Nadru @TritTriton , it is not too late to make the switch. You are welcome.
StanfordPlease don't get me wrong. It wasn't meant to be mean ๐
It just was the opposite of "Yes, I love it!" 
If you want serious feedback, I don't really like chromium in general as an engine. This is the reason why I moved away from Opera when they switched to it and the same also applies to Vivaldi. Also, it feels quite bloated to me. But that, unfortunately, is an issue that more or less all browsers have at the moment.
Idk, I just want a browser to browse the web. I don't want my emails in there or manage my contacts or take notes there...
@stanford @Vivaldi , just to be clear. Opera had a choice and they made the wrong choice, after I left.
At Vivaldi we did not really have much of a choice. We have spent a lot of time trying to build a great browser, based on the feedback we get from users. Yes, it has a lot of features. No, you do not have to use them all. You can use what is important to you.
BTW, this was the principle at Opera during my time as well. If you liked Opera, you might just love Vivaldi.
noodlejetski 
@noodlejetski @Vivaldi , interesting. You are welcome back anytime!
Matฤj Cepl ๐ช๐บ ๐จ๐ฟ ๐บ๐ฆ
@jon @Vivaldi I cannot find it my openSUSE/Tumbleweed repositories. Ah, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vivaldi_(web_browser) it is not even free softwar. Right.
albi von sklรกdka ๐จ๐ฟ@mcepl don't tell me you've never used Sublime Text, any JetBrains products, Steam, any non-open audio editor, almost any IM platform or for example Total Commander and Irfan View on Windows machines (we all need to touch those from time to time unfortunatelly)
there is quite a handful of pretty good non-free apps out there as products of very reasonably working organisations, which sometimes cannot be said about so called open source shit that Google (Android, Chromium), Microsoft (VSCode, .NET) or Mozilla are doing
for me the division is between exploiting and non-exploiting software, I don't care if the software has the source code released or not if it's poisoned with ads or spyware or chains you to the whims of crazy-rich lunatics
@jon @Vivaldi
there is quite a handful of pretty good non-free apps out there as products of very reasonably working organisations, which sometimes cannot be said about so called open source shit that Google (Android, Chromium), Microsoft (VSCode, .NET) or Mozilla are doing
for me the division is between exploiting and non-exploiting software, I don't care if the software has the source code released or not if it's poisoned with ads or spyware or chains you to the whims of crazy-rich lunatics
@jon @Vivaldi
@mcepl @albi @Vivaldi, good for you.
When we started working on Opera, we did it on SunOS. Up until that time, most of my work had been on Unix systems, as well as various Sinclair, Atari and Commodore computers. It felt like a downgrade to go to Windows.
I have always supported Linux and so have my companies, Opera and Vivaldi. I am hoping for Linux to grow and that is what I want to help it do. The best I can do there is to provide a great browser and that is what we try to do.
@jon @albi @Vivaldi And yes, I admit, working first Red Hat and now for SUSE, makes me rather exceptional in that I really don't have to care about Windows (or Mac OS for that matter) at all. And yes my son runs Steam and Chrome (similarly proprietary to Vivaldi) on his computer. And yes we use office365, Jira and Confluence for our work, but I still prefer Mastodon, Matrix, IRC, mostly because they work better for me (https://xkcd.com/1782/).
I prefer solutions based on open standards. That is why I support Mastodon. It is great in other ways as well, but that is for me the starting point.
At Opera we had more people working on writing the Web standards than any other company. Given our size, that was rather remarkable.
For more than 25 years I have competed with Big Tech. First at Opera and now at Vivaldi. Big Tech has a tendency to want to lock you in. We fight that.
@jon @albi @Vivaldi I understand, but I have high doubts that you can fight it using proprietary technologies (notice the success of Opera in that fight). And yes open standards are for me more important than open source, but without open source software manufacturer could be more tempted to use proprietary technology.
@mcepl @albi @Vivaldi , now this is interesting. Please tell me about what happened at Opera...๐
Afterwards, I can tell you what really happened, but that might require a bit of space.
It is good we agree that open standards are the most important. It is quite often forgotten. I think maybe more people are realizing that over time, or maybe they are not. The browser space is very interesting in that way and that is my home base.