Question: Examples of #boardgames that don't herd players towards optimal play?

Most games have a basic idea baked into the design, whether through victory conditions or something akin to "most points wins, here is probably the best way to get points, fight over who does it best." Once in a while, I run across a game that doesn't have that nudge (or it's so subtle that you don't notice it for a bunch of iterations). These often fall out as "sandbox" games.

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A friend & I have been playing The Colonists about once a month. We've gotten to where we can bang out an era 3/4 game in about 3hrs. I think we're maybe 10-15 games deep and have gotten past the "ok, what's my intra-turn optimization" to where we try and plan out 6-9 moves as goals.

Well, we've hit a ceiling though of ~290vp over 6ish games now (today was 280 vs 282). At this point, it's a fundamental rejiggering of how we approach the game vs just tightening up existing play.

It's a wide open sandbox though as best I can see. Ora & Labora is another that sort of feels like that, but there differentiation is determined by an opponent's building acquisition rather than conscious player planning choice as it is in The Colonists. Point stands though, I think both can fit the definition.

What examples of unguided games that don't guide players to optimal pathways?

(Note, this doesn't mean it's commercially successful, or a good design in general, just unguided)

@gpage my first reaction is a preference for ‘expressiveness’ that overlaps with your stated goal. T&E is the first that comes to mind. Wide open play space with competing goals, so the ‘guiding’ is not on rails and grows by the players’ interaction. I haven’t played any of the big board games that ape Videogame sandboxes. It’s funny too bc my fav sandbox (BotW) is much less guided, whereas the rest of the genre is SUPER guided

@PhilGross I think T&E is right there on the edge cause of how scoring works. That sort of tracks with the Quo Vadis suggestion, but T&E at least you know you need to balance things.

(And yeah, I find video games to be a different ball of wax in the guided sense, for better or worse).

@PhilGross specifically this is why I wonder if T&E fits or if I'm misreading the diversified scoring incentive.

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Grayson Page (@[email protected])

@jcl I remember reading a design note from (I think) Seth Jaffee about including "guide posts" of sorts in games, and I think that ties into your VP comment; if you gain information from VP accumulation along the way, does that count as the game guiding you toward something?

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