Grayson PageFeb 13, 2023

Question: Examples of #boardgames that don't herd players towards optimal play?

Most games have a basic idea baked into the design, whether through victory conditions or something akin to "most points wins, here is probably the best way to get points, fight over who does it best." Once in a while, I run across a game that doesn't have that nudge (or it's so subtle that you don't notice it for a bunch of iterations). These often fall out as "sandbox" games.

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Show threadGrayson PageFeb 13, 2023

A friend & I have been playing The Colonists about once a month. We've gotten to where we can bang out an era 3/4 game in about 3hrs. I think we're maybe 10-15 games deep and have gotten past the "ok, what's my intra-turn optimization" to where we try and plan out 6-9 moves as goals.

Well, we've hit a ceiling though of ~290vp over 6ish games now (today was 280 vs 282). At this point, it's a fundamental rejiggering of how we approach the game vs just tightening up existing play.

Show threadGrayson PageFeb 13, 2023

It's a wide open sandbox though as best I can see. Ora & Labora is another that sort of feels like that, but there differentiation is determined by an opponent's building acquisition rather than conscious player planning choice as it is in The Colonists. Point stands though, I think both can fit the definition.

What examples of unguided games that don't guide players to optimal pathways?

(Note, this doesn't mean it's commercially successful, or a good design in general, just unguided)

Show threadSeiðr
@gpage I would argue that games with a lot of different ways to scoring and lots of "action room" (that is: games with lots of small actions/turns instead of a limited number of turns and/or actions and forcing you to optimise) may be not sandbox by definition but work like that. I would refer to that as "punishing". For instance, I a game such as 'Carnegie' forces to optimise an strategy from beginning to end and punishes an action/turn that does not fall into that optimisation.
Feb 13, 2023 at 10:04amWeb
Show threadSeiðrFeb 13, 2023
@gpage An example of a game that does the opposite is 'Yokohama', which has an open-ended number of turns given its ending condition, and so players have a lot of actions and an error or a decision that does not fall into the general strategy in a single turn is not so punishing for the overal player position.
Show threadGrayson PageFeb 13, 2023
@Illuminatus ok, the dichotomy of fixed turns vs variable duration, excellent attribute. I'm less familiar with Yokohama, but a friend has it. I'll have to chat with them tomorrow at game night and learn more about it. Thank you.