Mastodawn

Lotus Feb 7, 2023

The fediverse has come this far despite being very capital-constrained.

What if that constraint were lifted?

If you have a project or idea (for- or non-profit) that helps build or grow the fediverse and would benefit from funding, I hope you'll apply here. Thank you!
https://bit.ly/fediverse-funding

Fediverse Funding Opportunities

Fediverse funding opportunities If you have a project or idea to grow the fediverse or Mastodon, and if funding would help you do it faster/bigger/better, I hope you’ll apply for funding here: https://form.typeform.com/to/eMY7s8S8 Increasingly, there’s interest in supporting the fediverse from b...

Google Docs

cuaxolotl Feb 6, 2023

@LASunshine @davidslifka being capital-constrained is a good thing for an organic network. capital is cancer juice.

ZagTheRaccoon 🦝 (Essayist)Feb 7, 2023

@cuaxolotl @LASunshine @davidslifka being self funded is a feature, not a bug

Collette Lynner Feb 7, 2023

@cuaxolotl ha. I thought 'cancer juice' was beer

cuaxolotl Feb 7, 2023

@collette only literally

JohnnyThan 🧡Feb 6, 2023

@davidslifka
I assume this is for US organizations?

David Slifka Feb 7, 2023

@JohnnyThan great question, no anybody can apply. I added a FAQ to the doc. Thank you!

JohnnyThan 🧡Feb 7, 2023

@davidslifka Thank you

Jan Feb 6, 2023

@davidslifka I‘m impressed how far the fediverse come with volunteers and donations only.

toolbear#🪧Feb 6, 2023

@davidslifka
"[Secret funders want you to submit your best ideas]" delivered via Google Docs and a survey site isn't inspiring confidence to be honest.

toolbear#🪧Feb 7, 2023

@davidslifka
Also "[your fediverse is lacking in capitalism]" isn't automatically a good pitch here.

Seirdy Feb 7, 2023

@davidslifka Unshortened URL: https://docs.google.com/document/d/15It9y-Nx8ZXV6b4yEzrBtMpIdnC6APURnMhvk5DRD_Q/edit?usp=sharing

You don’t need to shorten links here; pretty much all servers assign the same character count to all links. The only thing a shortened link accomplishes is tracking.

Fediverse Funding Opportunities

Fediverse funding opportunities If you have a project or idea to grow the fediverse or Mastodon, and if funding would help you do it faster/bigger/better, I hope you’ll apply for funding here: https://form.typeform.com/to/eMY7s8S8 Increasingly, there’s interest in supporting the fediverse from b...

Google Docs

Tim Chambers Feb 7, 2023

@davidslifka This feels very important. Please look over this #Mastodev, #FediAmin and #Fediverse Developers!

j.r / Julian Feb 7, 2023

@tchambers @davidslifka might be important yes, but involving venture capital could go in a wrong direction very fast! So one needs to be careful what funding you accept and what not...

David Slifka Feb 7, 2023

@jr @tchambers totally agree! The fediverse is monopoly-resistant and that's a great thing. Non-profit projects are super important here, and for-profit ones need funding that isn't traditional VC.

Tim Chambers Feb 7, 2023

@davidslifka @jr

Can I nominate for a grant to: https://blacktwitter.io/explore ?

Or can we only submit our own efforts?

Black Twitter

Remember when you first heard about Black twitter and thought it was actually a separate website? Was that just me?

Mastodon hosted on blacktwitter.io

David Slifka Feb 7, 2023

@tchambers @jr Interesting question, I'd say go ahead and submit for them please. Part of the goal is to assemble a list of funding needs/opportunities, so it will be helpful to have them on the list no matter who submits it. Thank you!

Jim Love Feb 7, 2023

@davidslifka @jr @tchambers

I'd love to know how you came to the conclusion that the fediverse is monopoly resistant. I say that, hoping your are right. DM me with any links or info, please.

Blort™ 🐀Ⓥ🥋☣️Feb 7, 2023

@davidslifka
Is it, though? I mean, is the fediverse more monopoly resistant than email, which now is largely centralized across approximately four major providers (and I say this as someone who runs my own mailserver - thanks @yunohost !)
@jr @tchambers

Steve Popovich Feb 7, 2023

@jr exactly, how many strings does the money come with?

j.r / Julian Feb 7, 2023

@sspopovich in this exact case I don't know...

But traditional venture capital is usually tied to investors wanting to see some growing numbers and they usually want a part of your company in exchange for the capital

Steve Popovich Feb 8, 2023

@jr you got it...take the vulture capitalist's money, and there goes any control you used to have.

Underten Over Feb 7, 2023

@davidslifka The more capitalists get involved the more this goes in the wrong direction. Not everything has to be a profit center.

rakoo Feb 7, 2023

@davidslifka what business model can reimburse this kind of funding and ensure the underlying service doesn't devolve down to surveillance capitalism that led to the current situation ?

David Slifka Feb 7, 2023

@rakoo Non-profit projects (like Mastodon!) are super important to the fediverse too, and need funding. On the for-profit side, @ivory and #SpaceHost are two that launched in recent weeks.

j.r / Julian Feb 7, 2023

@davidslifka there is actually not need to use link shorteners in here, as almost all Fediverse implementations count link as a fixed amount of characters, ignoring their real length or allow really long posts, where links size does not matter.

So my guess is, you want to track how many people visit your link?

bituur esztreym Feb 7, 2023

@davidslifka
lifted on google docs? o__0
srsly.. #prplXprpgnd

James M.Feb 7, 2023

@davidslifka to everyone not liking this post:

Look, I'm trying to escape capitalism just as much as anyone else, but the reality is that in today's godforsaken gladiator economy, funding can enable projects that wouldn't otherwise be able to do their thing. I'd love it if everyone could figure out how to get by outside of the money system, but today a lot of projects fail because the people doing it need to keep a roof over their head. To deny this is a *very* privileged viewpoint.

1/

James M.Feb 7, 2023

@davidslifka
I think such energy is better put towards figuring out *how* to accept funding without letting it negatively influence the project. There are ways to do this, and there do exist the occasional funders who are doing it for the right reasons, and IMO we should be open to that. Yes, there are valid reasons to be extra cautious when accepting funding, but that doesn't mean everyone who is trying to donate is a threat.

2/

James M.Feb 7, 2023

Finally, it HASN'T been all volunteers so far-- donations help sustain both Mastodon development and the operating costs of most instances. Please help support your own instance if you can afford to.

3/3

David Slifka Feb 7, 2023

@jamesmarshall Thank you, that's all well said!

Elizabeth Tai | 戴秀铃 🇲🇾Feb 7, 2023

@jamesmarshall @davidslifka Yup agree.

toolbear#🪧Feb 7, 2023

@liztai @jamesmarshall @davidslifka
I might agree in other cases but not this specific case.

That Google doc has almost no information about anything relevant for assessing whether this is a safe let alone good opportunity. It looks a lot like a way to steal labor in the form of crowdsourced ideas to use in a subsequent pitch document tbh

Jan Feb 7, 2023

@toolbear @liztai @jamesmarshall @davidslifka Agree, who are the VCs, GPs, what are the terms?

toolbear#🪧Feb 7, 2023

@jamesmarshall
> To deny this is a *very* privileged viewpoint.

I've had a night's sleep to stew on this.

This is close to weaponizing intersectionality to defend the status quo of capitalism with choosing a Venture Capitalist as your champion.

I get that that probably wasn't your intent but that's exactly how it came across.

VC guy's entire thread is suss.

Also, anti-capitalists deserve to have a space here without being attacked for speaking up. Deprivatizing the Internet is a thing.

James M.Feb 7, 2023

@toolbear um, I wasn't "attacking" anybody, I was disagreeing with them, and respectfully at that. Others were attacking the OP much more. I think HE deserves to have a space here without being attacked. Some didn't even consider the possibility that he was trying to help.

I don't see how I came "close to weaponizing intersectionality". And I didn't choose anybody as my "champion", I just want this to be a welcoming space.

It is absolutely privileged to think people can live without income.

toolbear#🪧Feb 7, 2023

@jamesmarshall
"Very privileged" felt like an attack to me. Intent versus impact. Peace.

James M.Feb 7, 2023

@toolbear also, to acknowledge the current need for most people to have income is not "defending the status quo of capitalism". I thought I made that clear in my first reply to the OP.

rakoo Feb 7, 2023

@jamesmarshall @davidslifka I don't think anyone denies the need for money in a capitalist society, this is different.

When you get funding, it's not a donation; it's a loan, with full expectation of a positive ROI. Which means someone who accepted the funding must not only get money for themselves, but *also* for someone else. And the only way that works at scale, currently, is surveillance capitalism.

I'm all for giving money to my instance hoster, or to the app developer if it's very good (but only if it's Libre -- a discussion for another time). But where does this money go ? To the devs ? Or to the VC ?

That's why I'm asking about the kinds of business models that could be viable here. I don't know if it's possible to have a business model that preserves privacy, community *and* pays the funders, but I don't know much so 🤷

James M.Feb 7, 2023

@rakoo @davidslifka thanks for your (respectful) thoughts and clarification.

Not all funding has an expectation of ROI. For-profit investments do; non-profit donations generally do not. Some are "donor-advised" contributions, which means the donor states which activities the donation is used for. Now, there are certainly shady nonprofits that are vehicles for corporate influence, but most are not.

For the record, I run a nonprofit that writes open source software. I'm a devoted fan of FOSS.

rakoo Feb 7, 2023

@jamesmarshall @davidslifka I admit I have little experience with non profits but the idea of funding sounds... sketchy ? I don't know

James M.Feb 7, 2023

@rakoo @davidslifka regarding "where does the money go", there are ways to ensure it's used correctly. The instance I use (sfba.social) is 100% transparent with their finances. It runs by donations and volunteer admins and moderators. The donations go to server and traffic costs. If it were to become a full-time job, I wouldn't mind paying the admin.

I would like to see this kind of openness be a common model for fediverse instances.

Kat M. Moss Feb 7, 2023

@davidslifka Can you see the problem with that, though? VC funding is where the problems with big tech arose in the first place. Do we want the fediverse to become big tech?

David Slifka Feb 7, 2023

@katmmoss Nope, we definitely don't want that! There's a ton of room for the fediverse to grow and improve and help more people, without becoming big tech (which decentralization prevents in any case).

Kat M. Moss Feb 7, 2023

@davidslifka But how can capitalism and the Fediverse work together if they are ultimately antitheses of one another?

David Slifka Feb 7, 2023

@katmmoss I respectfully disagree that capitalism and the Fediverse are antitheses. I hope that Ivory and SpaceHost are very successful businesses that help grow and improve the Fediverse!

Kat M. Moss Feb 7, 2023

@davidslifka I love Ivory, and I signed up for SpaceHost, but that was more because I'm hoping to move off my current hosting; Masto.host, while good, offers no access to the backends of the Mastodon servers it runs for folks.

Shai Sachs Feb 7, 2023

@davidslifka Hootsuite for Mastodon!

Jeff Martin Feb 7, 2023

@davidslifka Interesting idea, but I hope you’ll excuse some skepticism from those of us who don’t trust investors very much. What are you expecting in return from funding recipients, both for-profit and non-profit?

David Slifka Feb 7, 2023

@cuchaz Expecting in return for donations: That people build and grow the fediverse, which many want to do but lack the financial capacity. Investments would be mostly similar, except hopefully capital gets returned. The fediverse is monopoly-resistant and that's great and shouldn't change.

Jeff Martin Feb 7, 2023

@davidslifka Awesome, thanks for clarifying. A follow-up question: Why do you want the Fediverse to grow bigger?

David Slifka Feb 7, 2023

@cuchaz I think decentralization is the eventual solution to the problems that today's social media has and creates. What do you think?

Jeff Martin Feb 7, 2023

@davidslifka I think moving power from platform operators to users is the way forward. I can see why users would be interested in that. And maybe even philanthropists.

What I can’t figure out is why corporations would be interested in that, or why investors want to help. What do they get out of the deal, and how?

David Slifka Feb 7, 2023

@cuchaz The emphasis here is on donors/philanthropists, for sure. For investors, there are absolutely business opportunities, even in a healthy and decentralized fediverse. Ivory and SpaceHost are two just recently created. Fediverse businesses won't produce huge returns through monopoly and extraction, which is best for everyone; that also means different (non-VC) capital sources will be needed. And I'm not a VC.