@alpha1beta But why would armed drug dealers kill anyone over a traffic ticket?

The reason traffic stops turn deadly is because we use them as a pretext for cops to catch more serious criminals. But if it was just a ticket and not a warrant check, roadside search, and other investigations; nobody would care.

As usual, the solutions we’ve been doing cause the biggest problems we face; including how The War on Drugs makes every problem associated with drugs far worse.

@biobrain Because folks who are armed and dangerous and they're forced to ID themselves.

For anyone with anything illegal it'll set off fight/flight.

And to any decent cop, you're going to look much closer if they have a record.

These folks are criminal masterminds, they're drugs are typically in plain sight. The second they see flashing lights they know they're going to ail, and they have seconds to decide what to do

@alpha1beta Everything you're describing is caused by the current system and the scenario you gave would get an armed cop killed the same as a civilian since guns can't stop bullets.

Imagine if criminals knew that cops wouldn't check their record or arrest them even if drugs were in plain site? Why would they risk life in prison or execution over a $100 speeding ticket or expired tags?

Again, our solutions are causing the biggest problems; including the War on Drugs itself.

@biobrain You're also making the assumption that its just minor little tickets and not reckless driving or actions that critically endanger people's lives or that a cop doesn't pull someone over because they see something while they're say returning from another call. What are they supposed to do, call a civilian while a drunk driver continues on?

I get your point. One of my favorite cities in the world (Ithaca, NY) has been trying to do something similar. But it's not that simple.

@biobrain This article has a write up on how Ithaca is proposing to divide duties, missing one that I know was previously mentioned - car accidents would be civilian + EMS as needed. Traffic generally could be handled by both.

https://ithacavoice.com/2022/03/city-introduces-long-awaited-plans-for-department-of-community-safety-in-sweeping-recommendations-report/

@biobrain I'm not generally opposed to it, but there's no way to implement it without causing more harm in the short term.

This plan wouldn't meet your needs, really, cops are still going to be the primary for traffic - their only planning to hire 5 civilians. Honestly, you'd probably be better off telling the cops to put their gun in the trunk instead of their belt.

@the_ray_archie I'm not suggesting that's the only solution. So this bill's full text is not yet available, but from his post, it says traffic violates to civilians and cameras. I know some places, Ithaca, NY for one (https://ithacavoice.com/2022/03/city-introduces-long-awaited-plans-for-department-of-community-safety-in-sweeping-recommendations-report/ is a good read) are considering handing some traffic stops to civilians.

And there's many problems with that that don't do much to actually solve any of the issues at hand.

@the_ray_archie

The cameras are a mixed bag IMO. in my state, red light cameras are unconstitutional and were found to be ineffective - running red lights didn't decrease.

Automated cameras could become a racket to raise money and hurt those, especially those that may not be able to afford it, and they run the risk of abuse (storing records for too long, using it for pattern analysis etc)

And they're expensive to deploy with money leaving your local community.