Mastodawn

POLL: My 'Pet' #Tory Councillor* says: "If lefties stopped banging-on about #Socialism and did Nordic-style #SocialDemocracy instead the #UKToryParty would be permanently out of power even under #FPTP."

(* Thinks I must be a #Tory as I run a business & own a suit.
I don't correct him.)

Do you agree/disagree that Nordic-style #SocialDemocracy would beat the #UKToryParty better than talk of #Socialism?

(Pls. Boost for wider view.)

#uk #ukpolitics

Strongly Agree.✅✅

34.9%

Agree.✅

44.5%

Disagree.❌

13.5%

Strongly Disagree.❌❌

7%

Poll ended at Feb 8, 2023 at 6:44pm.

Fen C Feb 8, 2023

👆 I think so too.

Flaming June Feb 1, 2023

@fencoul Who bangs on about Socialism?

Maike Feb 1, 2023

@fencoul conservatives will keep on telling this kind of stupid nonsense regardless what the 'lefties' do or say.

Fen C Feb 1, 2023

👆 True, but it's easier to counter when you can point at successful examples of where what you're selling actually works...like the Nordic #SocialDemocrat countries.

His point is: 'Keep saying the #BogeyMan S-Word and you'll keep on losing.'

Maike Feb 1, 2023

@fencoul in Sweden, the social democrats got less than 30% in the last election, same in Norway and Denmark. In Germany it is even less. You don't beat the Tories by pretending to be almost alike, only a bit nicer.

dragonfrog Feb 1, 2023

@fencoul @maikek

The American Chopper meme is always topical on this. At least where I live, it's the Conservatives (no longer really the "Tories" of a generation ago, now they're a farther right team that's wearing the Tory party's skin as a suit) who brand anything to the left of hunting the poor for sport as "socialism" and therefore exactly the same as sending kulaks to the re-education camps.

🇳𝗮ꜟ𝖼𝘩 Feb 1, 2023

@fencoul What? I've no idea what he's on about.

Phil Thane ✅Feb 1, 2023

@fencoul I disagree. Not because I don't want #SocialDemocracy I do, but I don't think the British electorate would vote for it, or anything further to the left. New Labour centrism is about as far left as many voters will go.

Oli Feb 2, 2023

@pthane @fencoul nationalising mail, rail, water and power are popular with the majority of voters
They are popular with the majority of *tory* voters
https://leftfootforward.org/2019/01/poll-shows-huge-support-for-rail-nationalisation-even-from-tory-voters/

Poll shows huge support for rail nationalisation – even from Tory voters

Just 15% of the public oppose nationalisation

Left Foot Forward: Leading the UK's progressive debate

Shield Maiden Feb 1, 2023

@fencoul I've argued (pointlessly as it happens) that the word "socialism" is now so toxic and generates such a negative knee-jerk reaction by so many, so often that it should be superceded by another word or phrase which embodies the same key core ideals, but is generally more acceptable.

Indy Richard 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿Feb 2, 2023

@fencoul The pact between right wing politicians and right wing press is very powerful. It doesn't matter if it is socialism or social democracy or liberalism, whatever and whoever opposes the policies of the right will be attacked ruthlessly. As long as poor people can be persuaded to vote for the right wing parties who favour the rich, there is little hope or chance of real change.

Peter Keating Feb 2, 2023

@fencoul having experience of modern nordic social democracy eg: Norway I would strongly disagree - they export power yet the price there has gone through the roof...

Burnt Veggies Feb 2, 2023

@fencoul I didn't vote because I'm not in the UK and didn't want to skew your results, but if I was I'd choose Strongly Agree. Most conservative types seem to have an aversion to the word socialism, even if they are fine with the policies when presented individually.

Woodchaz Feb 2, 2023

@fencoul
I think a better way to look at it is, move the Overton window as much as possible at the pace society will accept. I think it's possible in the US because of how close Bernie got. Probably more likely in the UK. Social democracy can & probably should be just a stop along the way to socialism, but progress is progress.

Mysturji Feb 2, 2023

@fencoul
There was once a party that split off from Labour and called themselves the Social Democrats. They did so badly they merged with the Liberal party - now “Liberal Democrats”
How’s that going?

Fen C Feb 2, 2023

👆 They didn't look like any other #SocialDemocrat party on the planet...😂

Chris McCabe Feb 2, 2023

@fencoul More ppl need to learn that either means having a working NHS & services, & owning our own utilities for public good.

Evie 🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍🌈⚢💍

Nikkileah 🎮🚄🏳️‍⚧️🇬🇧Feb 2, 2023

@fencoul no idea but I'd love an end to The Nasty Party completely. The constant drip feed of directed hate is exhausting

Chris Kendall Feb 2, 2023

@fencoul Completely disagree with the gaslighting premise.

Ali Zartash Lloyd Feb 2, 2023

IMO the real problem is dogma has its downside, because ultimately it becomes like a religion.

Like you, my wife and I own our business, & before that we worked at highly paid senior levels in multi-nationals.

But, I want everyone to have access to free healthcare, free education, equal opportunity, fair wage, and I hate snobbery & reverse snobbery.

Right-wingers think I am a "Socialist" & Left-wingers think I am a "Capitalist".

I really don't care 😉

Hand Pie Feb 3, 2023

@fencoul there is not much talk of socialism, even when Corbyn was leader. But it was clear that he threatened wealth concentrations, profit gouging and asset price growth (including property prices), which our media and arguably our voters will never countenance, however much they complain about the negative effects these factors have on our society as a whole. Blair won by reassuring the wealthy and powerful, regardless of labels or whether we like it or not.

Fen C Feb 3, 2023

@HandPie 👆 I suspect that "why Blair won" (and "why Corbyn lost") are both much more complex than we'll ever really know - both scenarios with 10,000 variables.

We know we'll never know (à la Rumsfeld's unknown unknowns) so we oversimplify to have a straw to grasp - which just makes us feel better about not really having a fcuking clue...which doesn't change that we don't have a clue...

It's like asking: "exactly WHY did THAT specific rain-drop hit MY head THEN?". Never gonna know.

Rosemarie and Owen Kelly Feb 3, 2023

@fencoul @HandPie There are a few on this planet who do know……..

𝓓 𝓑 𝓒𝓸𝓸𝓹𝓮𝓻 Feb 3, 2023

@fencoul @HandPie
I can answer the raindrop question for you. It’s because Burt Bacharach and Hal David said so 👀😎