Mastodawn

Cynan Jan 30, 2023

I was not surprised to learn recently that the gas industry has known for 100+ years that gas stoves contributed to dangerous levels of indoor air pollution. I *was* surprised to learn that the government pub'd reports on it and the media covered it in a big way in the 1980s and fuck-all happened. Jesus how many versions of this story are we gonna live through? https://www.drilledpodcast.com/gas-knew-too-everything-you-need-to-know-on-climate-this-week/

Gas Knew, Too + Everything You Need to Know on Climate This Week

As the whole gas stove "culture war" rages on, it's important to remember that gas companies have known for over a century (?!) that breathing gas in your home is quite harmful to human health. Seems like a no-brainer right? But I know I was definitely of the mind that cooking

Drilled

PerryGrossman Jan 27, 2023

@amywestervelt surprise, surprise

Marmel Jan 27, 2023

@amywestervelt live through? Depends on our diminished life spans. I don’t expect change. :(

🅺🅸🅼 🆂🅲🅷🆄🅻🆉:~$ ▓Jan 27, 2023

@amywestervelt
Not many if you have a gas stove 😂
@jwcph

Mre. Dartigen [maker mode]Jan 27, 2023

@amywestervelt Given how electric stoves have been in the past, I'm guessing a nonzero part of the lack of change back then was 'yeah but electric stoves suck'.

Now we have induction which sucks significantly less, if you can get access to it. (And generally better electric element stoves, though they're still not as good as induction.) Having a comparably functional or better alternative goes a long way towards encouraging people to change.

Alexis Jan 27, 2023

@amywestervelt this is the biggest reason why I am upset about the housing I'm currently in: there is no direct-to-exterior vent over the gas stove, when it was built during my lifetime to ecological building standards - the only forced ventilation option is to open the kitchen windows and turn on the bathroom fan.

Julie Sqveakaroo Jan 27, 2023

The cycle will continue for as long as money can be made... and I wish I had a better and far less depressing answer...

@[email protected]Jan 28, 2023

@amywestervelt whoa!!

Adam Fisher-Cox Jan 28, 2023

@amywestervelt Having a good alternative this time around feels like a key to not just repeating the same thing. This news cycle got me to buy an induction hot plate to test it out and I love it!

Bill, organizer of stuff Jan 28, 2023

@amywestervelt
My landlord back in the late 90s remembered his household being part of a study that proved it and refused to put gas appliances in any of his apartments...

Pamela Barroway – Biz Editor Jan 28, 2023

@amywestervelt I wonder if this applies in some for gas powered appliances too -- like hot water heaters?

TheJen Jan 28, 2023

@PamelaBarroway @amywestervelt

It does.

Pamela Barroway – Biz Editor Jan 28, 2023

@JenWojcik @amywestervelt Thanks for confirming. My natural gas-powered hot water heater exploded today and I'm trying to convince the hub it's worth the extra bucks (even with IRA incentives) for an electric heat-pump water heater. He's asthmatic, has sleep apnea & uses a CPAP ... so getting rid of gas-powered appliances will only benefit him as time goes by (we're in our 50s currently). https://mstdn.social/@PamelaBarroway/109764322812397544

Pamela Barroway – Biz Editor (@[email protected])

So. My hot water heater exploded this morning and it's been just about as much f-u-n as you can imagine. On the upside, I now have the opportunity to #electrify by replacing my 15yo gas-powered appliance with an energy-efficient electric #HeatPump water heater, and collect some sweet sweet #InflationReductionAct rebates to boot. One issue: the up-front cost is more than replacing with a similar gas-powered version, and my financial advisor hub is balking. Any suggestions on persuasion?

Mastodon 🐘

TheJen Jan 28, 2023

@PamelaBarroway @amywestervelt

Yep. Had I had more time after mine died to research, I would have gone with a heat pump. We are getting rid of the stove, however. I imagine the newer water heaters are a hit better about the fumes, but I don't know.

Pamela Barroway – Biz Editor Jan 28, 2023

@JenWojcik @amywestervelt I feel very strongly that we have to do our part, in whatever way possible, to head off climate change. And if that means coughing up extra bucks to electrify for an efficient heat-pump water heater, then so be it.

TheJen Jan 28, 2023

@PamelaBarroway @amywestervelt

I feel the same way. We tried the instant electric, but it just flat won't work here.

Pamela Barroway – Biz Editor Jan 28, 2023

@JenWojcik @amywestervelt What does "instant electric" refer to?

TheJen Jan 28, 2023

@PamelaBarroway @amywestervelt

Like these: https://www.amazon.com/Electric-Tankless-Water-Heaters/s?k=Electric+Tankless+Water+Heaters

Pamela Barroway – Biz Editor Jan 28, 2023

@JenWojcik @amywestervelt Oh, tankless! I know about those. Unfortunately spacing issues won't allow for that in our current setup.

TheJen Jan 28, 2023

@PamelaBarroway @amywestervelt

Yep. It didn't work for us either. Groundwater is too cold even in summer.

Pamela Barroway – Biz Editor Jan 31, 2023

@JenWojcik @amywestervelt We are definitely getting the hybrid electric heat pump water heater. Yay!

TheJen Jan 31, 2023

@PamelaBarroway

Awesome! Keep me updated? Super curious.

Pamela Barroway – Biz Editor Jan 31, 2023

@JenWojcik I'll post pics tomorrow or Wed depending on when installation takes place!

CitizenZ Jan 30, 2023

@PamelaBarroway @amywestervelt your gas water heater has an exhaust blower that blows the fumes outside. Just like your gas furnace does.

mohammadrezasafari Jan 28, 2023

Janne Moren Jan 28, 2023

@amywestervelt Just note that in actual use the food you cook will be the largest contributor to air pollution, not the stove.

So whatever stove you use, make sure you have proper range ventilation outside, and make sure you replace filters and clean it regularly.

Dave Mangot Jan 28, 2023

@jannem @amywestervelt citation?

The studies commissioned by the California Air Resources Board show that even cooking the same food on different stoves produces different exposures.

Your statement could be construed as it's irrelevant what you use to cook because the biggest problem is that you made a choice to cook food.

Janne Moren Jan 29, 2023

@davemangot @amywestervelt Not at all irrelevant. If you can get an IH stove absolutely do so. Not just for the air quality; open flames are dangerous.

But it's not enough. Also make sure you have proper ventilation. In most places building code will require it of course, but you also do need to maintain it - cleaning your range exhaust sucks but you need to do it.

Dave Mangot Jan 29, 2023

@jannem @amywestervelt
I'd still be interested in reading a study that backs up "the food you cook will be the largest contributor to air pollution, not the stove."

I have been unable to find such data.

https://nyti.ms/3XLzeNH

In the Fight Over Gas Stoves, Meet the Industry’s Go-To Scientist

Longstanding research shows the health dangers of gas-burning ranges. Utilities are turning to Julie Goodman, a toxicologist with a firm whose work raises questions about the science.

Amy Westervelt Jan 29, 2023

@davemangot @jannem oooh that's a GREAT point, I would also be very curious to see a study comparing food emissions to stove emissions

Janne Moren Jan 30, 2023

@davemangot @amywestervelt Here's the first result of a quick search:

https://monographs.iarc.who.int/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/mono95-7.pdf

Dave Mangot Jan 30, 2023

@jannem @amywestervelt you're playing games. You jump into a thread about the long known dangers of gas stoves with a statement about how the food is more dangerous.

When pressed you produce a paper that summarizes a lengthy series of studies that say there is particulate matter generated from food but does not substantiate your statement anywhere.

Basically only contributing gas industry FUD. I'm done, blocking.

RuralTechie Jan 30, 2023

@amywestervelt I'm sorry, but this is a total non-story in most well-built modern homes. Older homes were leaky and got ventilation that way. Virtually ALL modern gas installations require a hood vent located (typically) 36" from the cooking surface and vent to the outside of the house.

Really silly story IMO.