John GruberWe’re just reinventing it from the grassroots once again. Clients like Ice Cubes and Ivory show previews of Mastodon posts when you include the URL in your quote post. It’s already happening and Mastodon’s official web interface will have to catch up. They lost their chance to define the quote-post on Mastodon by refusing to do it all for highly dubious “safety” reasons. https://mastodon.social/@film_girl/109759044241043089
Bed@gruber @ivory I find mastodon previews to be sooo hit and miss. Is it instance dependant. For example this is how your post looked to me in Ivory
Jordan Kay@bed @gruber Mona has gotten this right from day one. I honestly forget there technically isn’t quote posting on Mastodon because of that.
Sebastian
🏳️🌈 Lucy Wildboots 
@moehrenfeld I think most people think as you do right up until the function is weaponized against them. IMHO it is an opinion that helped ruin BirdChan. ‘I want what I want when I want it’ is a bad reason to further implement a feature to which a huge chunk of Mastodon is opposed. 1/2
@moehrenfeld 2/2 I don’t care that your feed was peaceful. I care about those who were hurt by it’s use. Until you can protect my right to consent to its use for my posts, until you can prevent its use for doxxing I will oppose further implementation. Proactive consent, my right to be safe, is part of what makes this place so special.
@LucyWildboots @_Jordan @bed @gruber I understand this and I also want people to be safe. But clients are already implementing it so if we want a safe implementation in the protocol it should happen soon. We (as in early Twitter users) invented Quote Tweets without support from Twitter because we wanted to use it. It will happen here as well.
@moehrenfeld ‘Everyone else is doing it’ is an interesting take on Holocaust Memorial Day. Then wrapping it up with the tech version of‘thoughts & prayers’ is, honestly, bs. We (as in early Twitter users) created a lot of stupid things that we do not have to repeat here. And since I started in 2007 I blame myself too. Here’s an interesting notion: instead of saying you care, actually care.
@LucyWildboots @moehrenfeld @_Jordan @gruber way to get people to switch off any reasonable debate: compare it with genocide. Just saying.
@bed to assume that there will be real debate in which the pro-QT side would actually stop their push to implement is either deliberately disingenuous or incredibly naive.
And the holocaust didn’t spring up overnight. It happened one day at a time. One ignored wrong at a time. The tool as currently implemented removes a core principle of Masto: proactive consent. And that is worth fighting for.
@LucyWildboots @moehrenfeld @_Jordan @gruber I don’t understand how linking to a publically accessible url is against consent. This is how the web works. If one doesn’t consent to the url being linkable by *anyone anywhere* it shouldn’t be a public url.
Mike Beasley@bed @LucyWildboots @moehrenfeld @_Jordan @gruber
“Quote tweeting is just like genocide because I don’t like either of them.”
“Blocking quote tweets will prevent doxxing.”
“The community is opposed to it, I speak for all of them.”
“Consent must be given for linking to a public web page.”
Kind of impressive how far people have to bend over backwards to argue against this and still make zero compelling points.
If you don’t like quote posts just don’t have one. 🤷🏻♂️
@MikeBeas This fixation on the Holocaust as being solely about the genocide is incredibly simplistic. When I made the reference I assumed my audience was sophisticated enough to understand that there were many bad choices and many steps that got the world to that point. My apologies for that assumption. 1/2
@LucyWildboots @MikeBeas @moehrenfeld @_Jordan @gruber better stop using the internet if linking to urls is so problematic! Cos that’s all quote replies are.
@bed @LucyWildboots @moehrenfeld @_Jordan @gruber The Hypertext Transfer Protocol has its roots deeply embedded in historical fascist movements and perpetuates genocide of marginalized groups. In this essay I will
@MikeBeas oh good! We’re now at the mansplaining part of the argument.
@MikeBeas and now the gif. I’ll give you this, you’re boringly predictable. @bed @moehrenfeld @_Jordan @gruber
@LucyWildboots @bed @moehrenfeld @_Jordan @gruber if it’s a choice between boringly predictable and claiming quote tweets are the holocaust i know which one i prefer.
@MikeBeas & we’re back to the Holocaust as a single event instead of a series of bad behaviors. I was never going to give you a reason you could accept because you don’t want to accept it.
Your only solutions are mansplaining the internet to a woman who’s first online game was MUD 1; a poor .gif post; & telling a significant group of people who disagree that they should go private because you can’t code well enough to find a real solution.
@LucyWildboots @bed @moehrenfeld @_Jordan @gruber Propose a solution other than taking your account private which prevents people from copying and pasting a link to your post. Go ahead. We’re all waiting.
@MikeBeas No. It’s not my job to work flow for a change you want to make. Do your own heavy lifting, slacker. @bed @moehrenfeld @_Jordan @gruber
@LucyWildboots @bed @moehrenfeld @_Jordan @gruber The work has already been done. A picker has been added to your compose screen that lets you choose if someone can see your post without your permission. Try it out.
@MikeBeas are you referring to the picker for who can see my posts? If so, nice try but epic fail. Now if there was an actual setting that said “Allow QT” with the default being off I could live with that. And if you’re really so inept that I have to do a flow, then if you tried to QT my post you get a notice box telling you ‘users does not allow QTs of their material” I find it sad that all these codes can’t figure that out.
@LucyWildboots @MikeBeas @moehrenfeld @_Jordan @gruber if a url preview to your posts say that - isn’t that a decent compromise? That gives you the consent you’re after no? Genuine question.
@bed I wish I had a flow chart app.
Settings -> Allow QT? - Yes/No default no
Poster tries to QT my post -> it is treated as an attachment -> Poster served info box ‘User does not allow QT’ -> attachment fails.
If they game the system I alert my sysop and the post is actioned.
@bed I know that anything that seems simple to code usually isn’t, but this seems the most elegant of solutions.
But thank you for being the first person to seriously ask me what consent could look like. There may be others in the pro-consent group that have better ideas, but they are too afraid to say.
Richard Earney@LucyWildboots @bed @MikeBeas @moehrenfeld @_Jordan @gruber I’ve learned that Mike should not be the one working on the team to solve a problem like this.
Maybe a solution could be a switch on a post. When you post you can allow/disallow QT. If anything bad happens later or you change your mind you could switch off the ability for QT on the post.
Plus have a pref for a blanket allow/disallow.
More control for the poster
It won’t stop linking, but it is more cumbersome to do that
Maybe a solution could be a switch on a post. When you post you can allow/disallow QT. If anything bad happens later or you change your mind you could switch off the ability for QT on the post.
Plus have a pref for a blanket allow/disallow.
More control for the poster
It won’t stop linking, but it is more cumbersome to do that
@methodphoto @LucyWildboots @bed @moehrenfeld @_Jordan @gruber I can’t believe people still think this is a viable solution. It does exactly noting to prevent abuse. This is a clueless “solution.” Which is why Twitter doesn’t have it either. They have a way to prevent unwanted quotes and it’s the same as what we have here. You cannot quote a private account.
A quote is literally just a link. If you think it’s anything more than that you don’t understand this stuff enough to present a solution.
@MikeBeas @LucyWildboots @bed Yes you can make a private account, but you might not want to. Yes, you can have links in posts, but there is a mild barrier to using that ability.
Unfortunately you're attitude isn’t helping think of a better solution, but just repeat the same thing, as well as demeaning any POV other that yours. It isn’t very Mastodon. Lucy has put forward a genuine issue but you’re thinking in a limited and not very empathetic way.
Unfortunately you're attitude isn’t helping think of a better solution, but just repeat the same thing, as well as demeaning any POV other that yours. It isn’t very Mastodon. Lucy has put forward a genuine issue but you’re thinking in a limited and not very empathetic way.
@methodphoto @LucyWildboots @bed If you don’t want to take an account private, you are responsible for what gets posted in public. That’s it. If you don’t want the wider public seeing something, don’t make it public.
Mastodon doesn’t even have “private accounts” — it had private posts. You can take a granular approach to this. You don’t have to take the whole account private. This is a REAL technical solution that PREVENTS the undesirable behavior. Your solution enables it.
@MikeBeas I have asked to leave me alone. You indicated that you were only responding to my posts & so I stopped. And now this. So let me be clear:
* You trigger my anxiety
* Your posts triggers my cPTSD
* I am afraid of you.
You are becoming an harasser. Is that really your goal? Do you understand that you are becoming the exact kind of person who WOULD abuse quote tweet.
Stop, as much for your sake as mine, & leave me alone.
@methodphoto @bed @moehrenfeld @_Jordan @gruber
@LucyWildboots @methodphoto You’re free to block me if you don’t want to see responses to this conversation. I am not the only one relying to it. I will continue to engage with this public content as I see fit. You are in control of what you see here. Stop putting the blame on others when you refuse to do anything on your own end.
@MikeBeas
I shall cos you’re just a bit of a wanker. Shame really 🤷♂️
I shall cos you’re just a bit of a wanker. Shame really 🤷♂️