I am annoyed at how much coverage of these recurring "Big Gorilla lays off around 10.000 people" is basically just a rehash of the company press release, with not a single journalist asking how it's possible that all of these big tech companies made the same exact mistake of hiring too many people, while simultaneously showing record profits.

Like, if a 'rigorous review' finds 12.000 redundancies, why does nobody question leadership about how this was allowed to happen?

Not one critical note.

Amazon: 18.000
Alphabet/Google: 12.000
Meta/Facebook: 11.000
Microsoft: 10.000
Salesforce: 8.000

And there's probably more that I am forgetting right now. All very similar percentages of the total workforce, clearly the kind of "you must cut this many" move that's been passed down from on high, and yet pretty much all reporters are nodding along with "post-pandemic spending shift, and weakening global economy" 🙄

I know I saw a thing on here about how it's essentially a viral thing, with one company starting it, and others then following suit, simply because it's a thing now, but I don't remember where.

It's not my job, though, while it is for these journalists and reporters. Do your fucking job, make them afraid of the coverage that might follow these sorts of vaguely-worded press releases.

This looks like it's indeed that article. Thank you, various people who linked it in the replies 🙂

Copycat behaviour, layoffs kill people due to the stress imposed, doesn't really improve anything, etc.

https://news.stanford.edu/2022/12/05/explains-recent-tech-layoffs-worried/

What explains recent tech layoffs, and why should we be worried? | Stanford News

As layoffs in the tech sector mount, Stanford Graduate School of Business Professor Jeffrey Pfeffer is worried. Research – by him, and others – has shown that the stress layoffs create takes a devastating toll on behavioral and physical health and increases mortality and morbidity substantially. Layoffs literally kill people, he said.

Stanford News
This is also interesting, in this context; US companies outsourcing work to teams in Latin America, to the point where local companies are having a very difficult time hiring, they're simply priced out of their own market; https://restofworld.org/2023/cheap-developers-latin-america-tech-crunch-scarcity/
U.S. tech firms are replacing workers with cheaper talent in Latin America

Poaching and coaching novice developers is local startups’ only solution.

Rest of World

Also, for the various people going “well, actually, news is hard now because journalists can’t get paid because everyone wants to get their news for free so they all fucked off to substack”; sure, has nothing to do with clickbait headlines, optimising for outrage, clinging to journalism as the truth class, platforming of nazis, TERFs and every other bigot in the name of ‘neutrality’, bothsidesism, etc.

I pay for news, thank you very much.

But I won’t pay for ‘journalism’ that kicks down instead of punching up, or newspapers that let pretty much anyone onto their opinion pages, or editors that pretend they are somehow ‘neutral’ when they greenlight yet another transphobic article.

Case in point: The Guardian is profitable, probably because of that nonsense. They are not getting my cash.

#DontPayTheGuardian

By the way, another thing that’s weird in all this; the fact that the conversation about mass layoffs at tech companies didn’t really take off until Alphabet did it, and Google was affected?

Like, there was some conversation around it, but nothing like the past 24 hours. Something something critical mass, perhaps. Who knows.

This doesn't mean that journalism is hopeless, by the way; @themarkup is doing great work so far, although I want to see how they'll respond to their instance admin's refusal to take action on transphobic speech.

The Guardian has its moments, such as its continuing reporting on the Uber Files, like this article from yesterday;

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2023/jan/20/uber-lobbying-activities-in-france-face-inquiry-after-guardian-investigation

#DontPayTheGuardian

It's not all bad, but it definitely needs a lot of work to get to a point where they stop 'printing' garbage regularly.

Uber’s lobbying activities in France face inquiry after Guardian investigation

Uber files project revealed that company identified Emmanuel Macron as key ally

The Guardian
@sindarina Yeah, I’m personally curious to see if over the next decade, the same trends of millennials and gen z looking at the GOP and going “yeah, no that just doesn’t work for the world I have to live in” will also leave mainstream “both sides” media without a paying customer base. I’m significantly older than that and like you, not about to give a dime to places like NYT, WaPo, etc. as long as I can’t even go 3 days without seeing them spout some twisted crap from the wall st/corporate, far right or other objectionable POV.

@sindarina I have been wondering whether the net effect of these layoffs, in a couple years, will be a massive shift of employment to lower-wage regions.

After all, everyone's working remote anyway. Living in the SF Bay area doesn't actually make you a better programmer, but it does make you a much more expensive one. Even for American workers, salaries will be lower because of the glut of recently fired. (But the cost of severance then recruiting & retraining will probably eat most of that!)

@sindarina For all of the talk of the genious of the leadership of the big companies, it is rather striking how they seem to move together as a heard. During pandemic, everyone hired like crazy, post pandemic everybody lays off, now they *all* move work to cheaper markets and all going to the same place; for the US it seems to be Latin America, in Europe it is central europe, but they all flock to the same spots which means thyat turnover is high and the cheapness slowly evaporates.

@sindarina Precisely the same story when everybody moved work to India and then China.

This is even doubly strange as if they would be embracing remote work, they could hire across the globe, including parts of the US where living is cheaper than SF.

One can only wonder what happened to leadership.

@sindarina
With the infrastructure bill, chips bill, and anti-inflation bills passed and all the investments for the next several years included, what's driving layoffs now?

Pure politics?

@sindarina This smacks of collusion. Governments need to get a handle on these robber barons, before a Jacobine revolution ignites. I'm too old for that shit.
@Enema_Cowboy @sindarina Look into what Starboard Value has been up to this month. They pulled some serious shenanigans as majority shareholder.
@Enema_Cowboy @sindarina collusion as payback for the non-noncompete laws is what I'm smelling...
And all their CEOs say they "take full responsibility", while not one of them is resigning of course, lol.
@sindarina Journalists doing their fucking jobs sounds heavenly.
@LibertyForward1 @sindarina honestly at this point, fuck journalists. The only people I want to read anything from are from ProPublica.
@sindarina I feel like I can’t be the only person suspecting that “Twitter fired like 80% of their workforce and it didn’t immediately implode” is a driver. :/
@sindarina I would read this article also if anyone is aware of one? I assume it is a complex combination of factors, all of them reactionary antisocial nonsense.

@pinsk @sindarina the article is probably https://news.stanford.edu/2022/12/05/explains-recent-tech-layoffs-worried/

Also Google literally hired 12k people in the last couple of months. "Oops we over hired" in the last few months? And you can't just ... slow down hiring? Ridiculous. Stock buybacks from last year alone could have paid for all the laid off employees for the next 7 years, assuming that each employee cost $1M to retain.

What explains recent tech layoffs, and why should we be worried? | Stanford News

As layoffs in the tech sector mount, Stanford Graduate School of Business Professor Jeffrey Pfeffer is worried. Research – by him, and others – has shown that the stress layoffs create takes a devastating toll on behavioral and physical health and increases mortality and morbidity substantially. Layoffs literally kill people, he said.

Stanford News
@smolwaffle @pinsk @sindarina shedding people is cheap (at least the US) because you owe them literally nothing. And it is explained to boards and investors as adjusting cost structure to improve future market value (eg stock price or IPO valuation for those not yet public).
@sindarina I like how no one has put the briefest consideration into the fact that journalists have been hit hard by news outlet cutbacks. No one pays for news. So no one gets paid for writing news. So, maybe there's a reason it's just a rehash of press releases and maybe it's not the reporters' fault?
@sindarina there's certainly a problem in the market when the companies they're reporting on also run the platforms people tend to find news on, journalists in general aren't the most typically objective bunch when it comes to any entity worth billions but I wonder how much of an influencing factor that is
What explains recent tech layoffs, and why should we be worried? | Stanford News

As layoffs in the tech sector mount, Stanford Graduate School of Business Professor Jeffrey Pfeffer is worried. Research – by him, and others – has shown that the stress layoffs create takes a devastating toll on behavioral and physical health and increases mortality and morbidity substantially. Layoffs literally kill people, he said.

Stanford News

@sindarina I used to work in a tech company where every year they would just fire 5-10% of the people. And managers were ask to rate their teams on a curve, one had to best, most had to be medium, and one had to be designated to be fired.

They skipped that public ranking. But I believe the higher up #management might still believe, that regular firings might somehow help their profits.

@thierna And still they wonder why people are quiet quitting, or don’t want to come back into the office after the pandemic 🤪
@thierna @sindarina "mmmm... Yes, this should keep fear alive in the hearts of the proletariat"
@sindarina all will get a slight boost in market becase they have followed soso strategy for supposed inflation caused slump in profits/stock price. So no innovation just fire people to get short term knee jerk positive vibe from brokers. What it really shows are firms coasting on past being led by coasters and not innovators. Investors should look elsewhere… to companies started by those being fired perhaps.
@sindarina I have always figured they jump on board to avoid getting a bad news cycle. If they were the first, they get all the bad headlines, but if they follow then it's just lost in the noise.

@sindarina

It's essentially shooting a hostage, which is what the rich do all day, every day.

@sindarina it’s really only a 5% change in headcount and they’ll likely end up rehiring a portion of those jobs anyway
@sindarina it’s wrong to hire that many people when you know you’re gonna fire most of them. These people have families relying on them. It’s sick. I’ve never heard of this many companies fire thousands at a time every other week.
@Luci_brennacolleen @sindarina It was a thing in the early nineties. I almost decided not to study computer science, but figured that it was cyclical, and probably growing. I saw another comment stating that e.g. microsoft fired 10k, but hired 30k people the last few years. Still not nice to the staff, or very smart from the companies' perspective (onboarding and morale costs, image etc..)
@Luci_brennacolleen @sindarina I've heard rumors that a third round is coming.
@Luci_brennacolleen @sindarina a business school professor I had in the mid 90’s called this Binge and Purge. She was highly critical of it. For this reason.
@sindarina @RuthMalan yes, as if, it is now totally acceptable to do this because everyone else is doing it
@sindarina i'm not even sure it's a mistake, not laying of when everybody does would certainly be seen as one by investors though, hiring is going to be cheaper in such a market, so laying of and rehiring makes sense.
@tshirtman @sindarina That's a good way to lose all your institutional knowledge.
@PavelASamsonov @sindarina I agree it asked workers as being easy to replace, which is often a mistake. Similarly to good code, good employees are easy to replace (good did and high code quality) but if they get replaced by worse ones, you still lose, as you get stuck with these.
@tshirtman @PavelASamsonov @sindarina and let's not forget that it is hard on 10000 people... to move their lives and then move them again because you made a mistake with your projections.
@bwyble @PavelASamsonov @sindarina yeah I thought that went without saying, only talking about motivation here, companies, especially of such a size, are not really empathic.
@sindarina Don’t expect anybody to ask questions. The media has been so thoroughly purged over the past few decades that all you have left are underpaid interns and grizzled veterans who know better than to question the corporate line.
@sindarina it’s because this is an engineered recession? The Fed is tanking the stock market. Investors are mad at the companies for not maintaining share price. The majority of big companies are doing it to placate investors who want to know what the co is doing to (insert euphemism for “continue to pump out record profits during a recession”). It’s not even contagious panic, it’s somewhere between keeping up with the Joneses and voodoo economics.
@sindarina all this time they supposedly had thousands of extra workers and there are still gaps in security, usability, accessibility, tech ethics, etc because they just couldn't devote the resources.
@sindarina that’s an excellent point! The corporate stranglehold on everything makes me so frustrated.

@sindarina There was an article on Hacker News last week about this that pointed to an article out of Stanford

https://news.stanford.edu/2022/12/05/explains-recent-tech-layoffs-worried/

The long short of it is that corp boards see the "right direction" of governance as cutting costs and head count because every one else is doing it and you don't want to not look like you have your ear to the reality and what Wall street expects. It is all peer pressure and group think.

What explains recent tech layoffs, and why should we be worried? | Stanford News

As layoffs in the tech sector mount, Stanford Graduate School of Business Professor Jeffrey Pfeffer is worried. Research – by him, and others – has shown that the stress layoffs create takes a devastating toll on behavioral and physical health and increases mortality and morbidity substantially. Layoffs literally kill people, he said.

Stanford News

@sindarina What? Accountability for upper management? Bwahahahaha

As long as it looks good on the balance sheet, as long as the actuaries say it'll save the shareholders half a penny, that's all that matters - long-term consequences be damned.

@sindarina If there were something like the Federal Reserve board except for tech companies, and that board decided that rising salaries in tech were a growing problem, a 8-10% cut across the board is exactly what that board would instruct its members to do.

@sindarina

I want thousands of laid off monopoly tech company nerds to build replacements for the companies they were fired from.

Remake all the apps you built, so they dont report anything back to the company.

Build privacy apps, that control Roomba, that take pictures, that record audio, with not single searchable data point.

Build the #linuxphone

#google #googleemployees #firedtechworkers #newtechjobs #replaceyouremployer #privacy #boing #techjob #jeevesproject #jeeves

@sindarina it’s an effect of shareholders expecting constant growth in profits.
@sindarina At least some of them probably found out, but one does not piss off a large hedge fund lightly.

@sindarina

Long thought the same. Indeed.

@sindarina The Seattle Times article about the Google one doesn't even talk about corporate profitability or revenue – revenue is up but not as much as they "projected" and they are still profitable AF. Maybe media should be asking why ruining 10,000 families' lives is necessary for a profitable company?

@sindarina

Looking for this at the bottom of "news" web pages now:

This one weird tech giant isn't laying anyone off, it's hiring! Reporters hate it!

@sindarina

This has been the case with the media and politicians for... well probably forever. I recall wondering why no-one called shenanigans on companies that did this back in the 80s as well.

@sindarina It will be interesting to see if the play book from the last 40 yrs continues to work. Lay off people who hit their max pay in non critical roles. Now everyone has to wait for that raise because we can't give raises while we are laying off. Slowly rehire to fill the positions you laid off at the bottom of the pay scale. I think people forget what Boom in Baby Boom stands for which was a huge population bubble that made that strategy work. They will keep doing it until it doesn't work.