Mastodawn

Plumazul Jan 20, 2023

Again, Theranos-level fraud. So much of the runup of Tesla's stock price (and Elon's personal wealth) was built on the widespread assumption that they had a lead in self-driving technology, based on fraudulent evidence like this staged demo. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-01-19/elon-musk-directed-tesla-autopilot-video-saying-car-drove-itself-tsla?srnd=premium

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Adam Cook Jan 19, 2023

@mtsw A fraud that has already cost human lives, in fact.

The fact that #Tesla and #Musk has recently been engaged in a "Safety is Priority Number 1 at Tesla" gaslighting campaign is just the icing on this cake.

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Alex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UK Jan 19, 2023

@adamjcook @mtsw Quite a few VW executives actually got nicked in various countries for Dieselgate and hauled up before Court - some even got jail! Although they did get early release and fairly light penalties, they were still processed through the criminal justice system in more than one country...

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Adam Cook Jan 19, 2023

@vfrmedia @mtsw True.

Well, the thing that Musk has going for him is that US automotive regulations are virtually non-existent and chief executives of US companies rarely receive criminal indictments.

VW executives were actually punished by the EU because the EU actually cares about the rule of law.

And it was easy for the US to punish VW because VW is a foreign company.

Musk has hands-down committed fraud here, but is it enough for criminal charges?

I am honestly not sure.

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Alex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UK Jan 19, 2023

@adamjcook @mtsw here in in UK selling a blatantly unroadworthy and unsafe vehicle (at any level) often does result in criminal penalties, as does fraud in vehicle descriptions (and the self driving Tesla isn't allowed here yet, just those you have to drive normally) but I've just watched "Just Rolled in" on YouTube and it seems at least some states of USA allow all sorts of unroadworthy motors to be sold and driven in the name of "freedom"..,.

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Adam Cook Jan 19, 2023

@vfrmedia @mtsw Yup.

It is my understanding that an automaker (and possibly its executives) can be held criminally responsible for even misrepresenting *the marketing* of automated driving systems - something that Tesla has done with wanton disregard to public safety.

The UK, also in my understanding, has specific laws carved out for automated driving systems marketing.

The UK is a decade ahead of the US on that issue (and many others).

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Alex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UK Jan 19, 2023

@adamjcook @mtsw I think the exact legislation hasn't been fully decided yet (its currently planned for 2025) but until it is, no self driving vehicles are currently approved by DVLA (our equivalent of the DMV).

There's already guidance in the Highway Code about how to drive them (and the traffic laws that would apply if doing so)

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/introduction#self-driving-vehicles

The Highway Code - Introduction - Guidance - GOV.UK

Who The Highway Code is for, how it's worded, the consequences of not following the rules, self-driving vehicles, and the hierarchy of road users (Rules H1 to H3).

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Adam Cook Jan 20, 2023

@vfrmedia @mtsw Gotcha!

Thanks for the info. I was not sure what the latest was on that.

The US is not even on the same galaxy as this.

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2xfo Jan 19, 2023

@adamjcook @mtsw
If they cared about safety they would make vehicles that have actual means to control them instead of a coffin with an ipad mounted outside of the driver's sightline. I have to look down and to the right to tell if it's safe to turn left in a Model Y. Pure idiocy.

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Adam Cook Jan 19, 2023

@RnDanger @mtsw Yup!

In fact, coincidentally, Tesla's Head of #Autopilot Software (Ashok Elluswamy) just admitted under oath that they are ignorant of the mere existence of #HumanFactors issues in these systems.

https://elk.zone/mastodon.social/@adamjcook/109706132471258890

Adam Cook (@[email protected])

Attached: 2 images The last bit establishes that #Tesla is not maintaining a systems safety lifecycle internally that appropriately incorporates #HumanFactors issues into any would-be validation process. Unsurprisingly, Elluswamy admits to that in this deposition...

Mastodon

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2xfo Jan 20, 2023

@adamjcook @mtsw
Such facepalm 🤦‍♂️

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Cat Food Casserole Jan 19, 2023

@mtsw
His only really talent is manipulation.

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Midwest Bob Jan 19, 2023

@mtsw Interesting how Muskovich’s dishonesty in all his businesses is leaking out! A real piece of poop.

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Krankenbrüder Jan 19, 2023

@mtsw Market doesn't seem too perturbed. Must be baked in.

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[email protected]Jan 19, 2023

@mtsw What a colossal fraud. No more taxpayer money for you!

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Sam Abuelsamid Jan 19, 2023

@mtsw there are many of us that actually have knowledge of the automated driving space (actually pretty much everyone including many former leaders of the autopilot effort)that have known from the beginning that the idea that Tesla was a leader in the space was a complete sham being put forward by Elno and stock shills like Ross Gerber, Cathie Wood and Adam Jonas

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imbou Jan 20, 2023

@mtsw I despise Elon musk, have for years complained that he is using his customers as alpha testers and think he is a fraud but it’s not Theranos. Theranos products were literally non functional they couldn’t do a test at all, they were sending stuff to real labs to get results it was a complete fraud with a product that couldn’t do anything they described. Tesla on the other hand exaggerate how good the capabilities are which in the eye of the law isn’t the same.

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Adam Cook Jan 20, 2023

@imbou @mtsw These lies have actually killed people though.

That is beyond Theranos’ wrongdoings in my view.

Tesla’s vehicles are not remotely capable of “self-driving” and it is extremely dangerous that Tesla should suggest that they are.

As such, Tesla’s product is not functional either - because it is structurally and terminally unsafe.

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imbou Jan 20, 2023

@adamjcook @mtsw I am not arguing Tesla is good. What I am saying is that theranos actually faked medical results it endangered a lot of people as well, exaggerating the safety of a product is something that happens a lot in business but raising money and selling a completely fake product is whole other level. Cars kill people all of them. They are both bad Theranos was at another level.

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Adam Cook Jan 20, 2023

@imbou @mtsw Let me be a bit more direct - these lies that Tesla told directly contributed to multiple Autopilot-related fatalities and they continue to harm the public today.

Theranos' lies endangered people.

Tesla's lies killed several people.

The fact that cars cause injury in death in general is orthogonal to Tesla's wrongdoings, in my view.

I would say, given this, that Tesla's wrongdoings are certainly more severe (and ongoing).

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FaceEatingKoala Jan 20, 2023

@mtsw their rangr and speed is legit. Every else like price, fit and finish, looks leaves much to be desired. And yeah it doesn't help self driving is vaporware and the big players are releasing EVs and plugin hybrids that don't look like Hyundais (except for Hyundai)

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SimonProD Jan 20, 2023

@FaceEatingKoala @mtsw german manufacturers concentrate on making self-driving work on the Autobahn as there are no intersections, pedestrians, cyclists,... But will still take years. German saying goes "Will be ready by the end of a year!" - "What year?" - "A year!" 😂

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Quanah Schlesselman Jan 20, 2023

@mtsw Elon is much like #TFG. Trump would still be cheating on his taxes, if only he hadn’t run for #POTUS and #Elon would still be conning everyone with #Tesla superiority, if only he’d left #twitter alone.

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