Have you heard that almond milk uses loads of water, so is really bad for the environment?

Or that rainforests get chopped down to grow your soy beans for that soy milk?

These are distortions of the truth, designed to make cow’s milk sound better without actually using evidence. See the photo, and read on, a thread 🧵 #vegan

Yes, almond milk uses a lot of water. But compared to cows milk, it uses about half per glass of milk - and it has far fewer emissions and far less land use!

(I’d actually recommend avoiding almond milk and instead using one of the other plant milks)

It’s true that a lot of rainforest is cut down to grow soy beans. But the truth is, those beans are for *animal feed*. Most soy milk you can buy will clearly state on the label that it’s grown in Europe and not from a rainforest.

If you’re worried about land usage, soy milk still uses far less land than cows milk!

And if you’re worried about emissions, and your carbon footprint, then cows milk is by far the most dirty and polluting milk there is. You should try a plant based alternative!

Cow’s milk is for baby cows, not for humans.

🧵 ends
#vegan

@shauny why so adults feel the need to drink milk or any kind.
@yannis @shauny why do we feel the need to do anything but subsist?
@Flamekebab I don’t follow your question. Milk is not something we need (if it was nature would have ensured we had it naturally) so why drink/consume something that is a drain on our environment? It’s not like it tastes great.

@yannis You asked about why people "feel the need". People like it. People like stuff.

The better question is how people justify their wants against the resource costs.

My general point was that trying to reduce it to human needs is unconstructive. We could all subsist on nutrient paste but that's obviously not going to happen.

Recognising the complexity of the problem is important if we are to build solutions and make changes.

@Flamekebab thanks for clarifying.
@yannis @Flamekebab What do you put on your cereal? Don't you cook anything that calls for milk as an ingredient?
@shacker @Flamekebab I don’t eat cereal for breakfast (it sounds weird but I don’t) and if i have it as a snack, it’s dry. Yes we cook with it sometimes, but I was mostly referring to people just guzzling it.

@shauny

Milk is generally not for consumption of people over the age of 5.

About 70% of the population of the planet is lactose intolerant. Because it's natural. Lactose tolerance is the unusual thing, due to possible one group of people in Europe gaining tolerance due to scarcity of food.

Most people on the planet are lactose tolerance until around the age of 5, then its gone.

@siobhansarelle @shauny

I've never been lactose intolerant but at some point I just noticed that I liked the *taste* of soy milk better-- because at the time I lived with someone who reacted badly to dairy milk.

@shauny But it's the most delicious too.
@shauny oat milk for me … and having bought it for ages, i started making ny own yesterday … and it was just like Oatly (but not nastily-bastardy like they are) 😊
@shauny Thisss, like I've heard this argument so many times but the soy milk I buy clearly states multiple times in the carton that it's rainforest-free and made in Europe lol. I'm also from Europe myself, so the pollution from transporting isn't massive either.
@shauny For those interested in the figures on soybeans.
@shauny almond milk is my favourite for making caramel and fudge, but since I hardly ever make caramel or fudge, I reckon that's OK. When I first went vegan there was really only soya milk easily available and I've never liked soya milk, so I just didn't bother with milk at all. I mean, there's always water. Over Christmas I made fudge with oat milk cos we get that from the milk delivery person, and it was plenty nice.
@shauny @aral is this chart still based on data including green water (=rain water) use in water statistics for dairy and excluding it for all other milk types?

@shauny

It's the industrial cultivation of almonds that consumes a lot of water, but there are other ways of cultivating almonds that consume less water.

@shauny Why would we even care to drink anything else than water ? We don't need milk : cow or not.
@FranckLeroy @shauny why have anything more than nutrient paste?
@FranckLeroy @[email protected] You're right. Why enjoy anything. Just take vitamins and drink water. 🤡
@shauny Wow, I did not expect such a difference, that's impressive. Thanks for the share.

I'd be interested to learn more about this, however, I can't find the source study. All I could find with this "Poore and Nemecek" graph (attached to the toot) comparing the impact in terms of CO2 emissions of soy milk vs cow milk page 2 of this science article: https://sci-hub.ru/https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aaq0216

Would you happen to know where this rice and oat milk data is coming from?

Context: I like to drink milk with my coffee sometimes. Taste-wise, soy milk is a poor substitute to cow milk. Rice and Almond tend to be alright. I'd like to be sure I'm not doing something wrong before changing my purchasing behavior.

@Ninjatrappeur an article that explains it more is here:

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-46654042

As for taste, you get used to it. Oat milk is the best imo

Climate change: Which vegan milk is best?

With sales of vegan foods on the rise, check the environmental impact of plant-based milks.

@shauny Thanks!

I did not try oat milk yet, it's pretty expensive where I live.

I'll buy some next time I grocery shop to try it.

@shauny a lot of this comes down to where you do the cultivation. A huge amount of almond production is in California which is one of the worst places to grow almonds and is only viable because of a broken regulatory environment. If you’re drinking cow’s milk in Finland then water use is irrelevant.

Another big issue is the healthfulness of the different options. Many milk alternatives are far worse for you than milk.

That said, I’ve mostly switched to oat milk.

@shauny I usually use milk in drops (just to make coffee sweeter without sugar), but my I love making yogurt... Something which would be quite complicate to do using non-dairy milk 😞
@shauny I just want to know which of these things have the lowest #glyphosate content at this point. If saving the climate means giving cancer to the poors then we're in a Scooby Doo Meets Fourth Reich scenario
@shauny well, i'm not a big fan of emissions do i should probably stop drinking dairy milk, but i also fucking hate water and want to use as much of it as possible, so i guess i should start buying almond milk
@shauny Lactose intolerance was the thing that pushed me off of dairy milk... I'm glad it has positive environmental impact too! 🙂
@shauny I thought of this for 1st one - lol - took me a few minutes s to twig cows

@shauny

This is not an issue with the product itself, it's an issue with the way its produced.

And clearly the alternatives are still far better.

@shauny

Sorry, yes, I realise now that was your point anyway!

@shauny wait until you hear about the environmental impacts of burning fossil fuels.
@shauny
Have you heard of the impact of JPG compression on text and graphs
@shauny
Which milk do you use the most? I've been thinking about switching from almond to soy. Is there any non-GMO soy milk? 🤔
@shauny Also they're disgusting. I recently had the opportunity to taste lab made "cows milk"
I couldn't tell the difference. Cows milk is popular for a reason. That needs to be taken into account when manufacturing these disgusting faux milks.
Also pea milk was one of the better ones I've tried but it still wasn't great.
@shauny this is one aspect where one can contribute to saving our planet 🌏
@shauny Unsweetened soy milk and cows milk can important sources of protein for vegetarians, whereas these other “milks” are full of starches and sugars - hardly better than fruit juice.
@shauny total aside: this why Mastodon could, in a case like this, benefit from quote-toots: I totally agree with this but I'd prefer to draw attention to the CO2 emitted by private jets because, honestly, I think me switching to sustainable milk is not nearly as meaningful as billionaires stopping being nobs. And I'd love a mechanism to draw attention to both those things. 😅
@shauny the Amazon rainforest is getting cut down even now for two primary reasons: cow grazing land and paper ( major US toilet paper companies are involved).
@[email protected] Why enjoy anything. Just live off a sense of your own self worth like all vegans.

@shauny

Why “milk” grains at all? If you’re going vegan just drink fruit and vegetable juices. I’ve tried fake milks on cereal and you may as well use water.

@shauny Also: No dairy milk without meat production because of (otherwise unneeded) pregnancies etc. That means water consumption for dairy milk should also factor in the water used up by raising calves. This is an unavoidable side effect.

This renders any argument about natural cow herding living off of rained-upon grasslands moot.

@shauny

A good example why we need independent science.

@shauny

Incredibly, all of these things can be true at the same time.

@shauny a question: Emissions of what? Unfortunately the chart doesn’t say that
@shauny so what happens to each of the sources after the milk is recovered. I'm pretty sure the rice, soy, oats, and almonds aren't good for much are they? What happens to the cow?

@shauny
It's such a pity soy milk tastes like it was run through a water hose.

Cashew milk is great imo

@shauny
Oat milk seems to hit a sweet spot (sorry for the pun) according to this diagram
@shauny
It is a disaster. These distorting informationen is used by so many persons I met over the last year's.
@shauny do you happen to have a link to the actual paper?
@shauny I eat dairy products, cheese, ice cream etc. But I don't drink cow milk. Thankfully, I don't like the taste of it, so I've been drinking alternatives for years. Oat milk is my favorite.
@shauny I'll have real milk anyway, as nature 'intended'...
@shauny isn’t the issue less how much water is used for almond milk and more *where* that water is being used? Almonds mostly grow in the same areas that are suffering massive decades long drought while cow/soy/oat milk may be produced locally with relatively different impacts depending on locale. So maybe the most eco friendly answer in Vermont is different than the answer in Texas or California and a simplified chart can’t really properly compare their comparative impacts?