@jeff okay this is probably a unpopular opinion but fuck it: I wouldn't mind to see ads if this means it would help to run the server. Mastodon should implement ads with a easy opt in/opt out model (for the users) that server admins can choose to use on their instance.
And maybe a easy one click donation implementation in the official app over the app store. Like I heard from a friend who works on apps: "With every additional click you will loose people that are willing to pay."
@Wabu @jeff prefer no ads but if needed,how about
YES:
* other #MastodonInstances that can afford to run ads
* #Mastodon-supporting, #proEarth, #proScience #nonprofits and #universities
* #jobAds for #scientists #programmers #educators #artists
* #recycling #sustainability efforts
* #animalRescues
* #LocalGovernment #StateGovernment #publicSafety #parksAndRec #historicPreservation
e.g. #NationalGeographic #Smithsonian
NO:
* diets
* Schemes (get rich quick)
* Overpriced luxury goods
@yoohooair @Wabu @jeff @nathan #admin
😠 NO ADS ON MASTODON 😨
✊️ NO ADS ON MASTODON 😨
But read this thread...
I'm generally against ads as a revenue model, especially for media because of the ways advertisers can influence editorial/ moderation choices. Totally opposed to surveillance advertising in all its forms, of course.
But..
@nathan
> admins trying to push ads from their instance will be swiftly defederated
Only if they're pushing ads out to other instances. What if they just display contextual ads to accounts on their instance?
Please expand on how contextual ads, shown only to users who opt-in to seeing them by joining an ad-funded instance, go...
@nathan
> completely against the ethos of Mastodon
I agree it's not ideal, and it seems unlikely to become a common funding model (can expand on why if you're interested). But is it really such a terrible thing if it works for a few instances, and the people who would rather see ads than pay money?
@nathan
OK, maybe it does conflict with the ethos of Mastodon. Although the mention of algorithms suggests the real target is surveillance advertising and the accompanying timeline manipulation, not opt-in contextual ads. Worth pointing out too that John Mastodon only gets to define the ethos of the Mastodon project, not the whole fediverse. That's up to all of us to hash out together and find rough consensus.
@strypey @nathan @T2oofei8ht @yoohooair @Wabu @jeff
Instead of ads scattered throughout instances and becoming a mess, why not just have an instance totally devoted to ads? That way people can visit as needed without polluting their core instances?
Keep it separate, but make it available. Admins can create accounts there and post ads that suit them. Then just link to them.
It is less optimal than having ads on a regular instance, but you are forcing people to see them. That would cause a big stir on its own.
@the_Effekt @strypey @T2oofei8ht @yoohooair @Wabu @jeff That's pretty convoluted and Mastodon isn't even needed for that, you could point users to a curated GitHub Pages site and it's basically the same thing. It's not going to make admins any money either way though.
Mastodon doesn't need ads. People will happily support their instance. It's a non-issue.
@nathan
>People will happily support their instance.
In some cases, but not all. For example you're presuming everyone has spare money to make regular donations to the net services they use. The original business model of the net was for ISPs to supply hosting. But it turned out many people couldn't afford the net if the costs of hosting were included, so they were unbundled, and the ad-funded web emerged as a direct consequence.
@nathan @strypey @T2oofei8ht @yoohooair @Wabu @jeff
Personally I can't stand ads. They clutter up what could be good sites. I would love to never see them in this space. It's just my personal view.
In the interest of fairness though I wanted to propose an alternative or compromise.
@nathan
> I'm speaking as someone who has run a Mastodon instance entirely funded by the community
That's great. Long may it continue. But based on the OP by @jeff, it seems this is not a universal experience. As I said in my initial post in this thread, I'm no fan of ad-based funding models, and clearly nobody in this discussion thinks they're desirable. But the question here is, under what conditions might they be tolerable?
Another question that might be worth asking is how we - the broader fediverse community - could support struggling instances? Eg could we set up a funding pool that instances can contribute to when they have a healthy surplus? Who could be trusted (and willing) to administrate it, and what would the criteria be for getting a grant?
@strypey @jeff @the_Effekt @T2oofei8ht @yoohooair @Wabu The reality is it doesn't cost a lot to run a small server (I paid $6/month for a long time) but advertising will earn you pennies. It's not a viable solution even if it was tolerable.
Most public instances are community funded and if admins ask their community for support they will show up.
@nathan @strypey @jeff @the_Effekt @T2oofei8ht @yoohooair @Wabu Nathan,
I know this instance brings its ups and downs for you, but your efforts behind the scenes are so valued. I haven't yet donated, but as I'm using Mastodon more and more I will chip in.
Your points of view in how you run .lol are always spot on. 🍺 And 🤗 for all you do.
@nathan @strypey @jeff @T2oofei8ht @yoohooair @Wabu
This conversation is helpful in more ways than one. I may be setting up an instance for a client of mine (still trying to convince him), so the info is pretty valuable to me.
@nathan
> doesn't cost a lot to run a small server... $6/month
Other posts in this thread say their costs are much higher.
> advertising will earn you pennies
This assumption is based on surveillance advertising, where the intermediaries make more money out of each ad sold than the media outlet displaying it. In contrast, many podcasters cover their hosting costs by selling a couple of ad spots per episode.
@nathan
But as I said, all of this is beside the point. Persuading me that funding stuff via ads isn't what we want is like convincing a fish not to ride a bicycle.
I joined this thread to explore your claim that any instance who found a way to cover their costs via advertising would be defederated en masse. Given our discussion in this thread, do you still think that?
@strypey @jeff @the_Effekt @T2oofei8ht @yoohooair @Wabu I can't do anything about people deciding to use AWS and paying hundreds in egress fees. Inexperienced people shouldn't be running public instances anyway.
My opinion hasn't changed at all.
Ae, AWS is awful.
@nathan
> Inexperienced people shouldn't be running public instances anyway.
I'd go further and suggest that public instances ought to be the exception, and the most sensible default for new accounts on new instances (regardless of software) is either invite-only (like Snikket in the XMPP world), or by-request. This reduces the likelihood of accounts being set up for spam and other abuse on instances with inexperienced mods.
@nathan
> My opinion hasn't changed at all.
So if an instance is showing ads only to people using it, how would the admins of other instances know, and why would it bother them? As long as the instance isn't disabling account portability features, but I think that's grounds for mass defederation with or without ads.
@nathan
Imagine a situation where a large sports club runs an instance for its members, and promotes local businesses there as part of a sponsorship deal (logos on team uniforms etc). Again, such ads would only be visible to club members using the instance, and perhaps visitors to the public-facing pages on the web, not to anyone interacting from other instances. Would the 'verse defederate from such an instance, and if so, why?
@nathan
> A large large sports club doesn't need to do that
Granted, but I'm still curious about how you think admins of other instances would respond to that and why.
@the_Effekt
> ads scattered throughout instances and becoming a mess
What's messy about seeing the odd ad related to the topic of the post you're reading?
> why not just have an instance totally devoted to ads?
Who organises and pays for it? Why not link directly to company websites instead of adding an ad instance between them?
> It is less optimal than having ads on a regular instance, but you are forcing people to see them
How?
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