Mastodawn

If you're devoting resources towards teaching women and girls how to be safe from attacks but aren't devoting the same level of resources, or more, towards teaching men and boys how to not attack, then your position is that the primary, if not sole, problem is female ignorance, not male violence.

Ricardo Harvin Jan 6, 2023

It's telling that primarily men (except for one trans woman) are choosing to nitpick on this to tell me I'm wrong in some way.

I literally don't say to not teach women how to defend themselves.

I literally do say that "at least" as many resources need to be directed at the literal *root cause* of violence against women: male violence.

You're all showing who you are, which is helpful to women, and others, who can now know to avoid you.

Leslie 🇺🇸🌻🌈 🌊Jan 6, 2023

@ricardoharvin I took a self defense class once and they told us to walk on the outside of the sidewalk so as not to be pushed into an alley or building. First time I tried it some jogger yelled at me for being in his way 🙄

SugarCunt (they)Jan 6, 2023

I am truly disturbed by men who choose to reinforce the notion that boys and men are unteachable. the folks replying to say as much (notably the men) appall me.

What?

"I'm a raptor, and I'm here to say, raptors are impossible to control, we should only teach women to fight raptors because it does no good to teach raptors to attack people less."

Except men aren't raptors, they're humans. Human brains are capable of so much more. They can do better.

@ricardoharvin how do I reblog and star this 5,000 times?

Ricardo Harvin Jan 6, 2023

@kk undo, redo 😇

Jeff Shaffer CBET, ret Jan 6, 2023

@ricardoharvin I think it’s more effective to put the money where it will do the most good and I doubt teaching boys and men not to attack will matter. I’m not saying boys and men are unteachable, no wait… that is what I’m saying. I don’t expect teaching the basic premise that attacking anybody will make much difference, it’s not the knowledge that this is wrong that is missing, it’s the lack of caring about it. If they attack someone who is trained, at least that will have consequences.

Ricardo Harvin Jan 6, 2023

@CivilityFan You are literally part of the problem.

You're putting all of the burden on women, and relieving all men of all responsibilities for our collective actions and failures.

That you fail to understand and acknowledge this, and how wrong and sickening that is, is quite telling.

EDIT:

Oh, I understand now: "civility" man 🤮🖕🏿

Deb4+ aka Deborah DT 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️Jan 6, 2023

@ricardoharvin @CivilityFan

Thank you Ricardo.

I had self defense training. It was not enough

Mary Ann Horn Jan 6, 2023

@ricardoharvin @CivilityFan . Yes. I was loving where he was going…at first….

cstephens2 Jan 6, 2023

@CivilityFan @ricardoharvin It is absolutely the knowledge that this is wrong that is missing. There are justifications galore from men who attack women, the thought that she was asking for it, or that she deserved it, sometimes for the offense of simply not returning his interest and affection.

It's better to try to prevent the disease than to have to treat the disease. But you'd rather the men and boys bear zero responsibility cause they can't help themselves. That's total crap.

Reach for the Stars

@ricardoharvin Do you think that attackers are ignorant of the morality of their actions and all that is needed is for someone to "show them the light?" Those who would commit such acts will not heed your proposed training. Further, a growing number of studies are showing that this mandatory training courses have a strong tenancy to leave those who attend them with less respect for the protected group.

Ricardo Harvin Jan 6, 2023

@antares I'm not referring to educating some subset of men, but to teach all men that violence against women is wrong and unacceptable behavior, which includes standing by, doing and saying nothing, which gives tacit approval of such violence and perpetuates not just its existence but its acceptance.

You know this and don't want reflect on your own failings, as I do mine, so you can feel morally superior without doing a thing to improve the world.

You're either an abuser, coward, or both.

yamainu 🏳️‍🌈Jan 6, 2023

@antares @ricardoharvin Some men, especially younger, college-age men, really do not understand the concept of consent. Some really dont’ understand that what they are doing is violence. Society teaches people a lot of shitty myths about what is expected, how to behave, how to be “nice,” etc… and the result is rape culture among other things.

Mad Honcho Jan 6, 2023

@antares @ricardoharvin

it’s not a switch, where all of a sudden all the violence goes away.

it’s a process, likely a very long one, and it’s already underway.

but as OP states such a process requires significantly more resources than it currently receives.

union whore Jan 6, 2023

@ricardoharvin I don't fully agree. I mean I agree that dismantling the patriarchy is important and would solve this whole thing, but it takes a lot more energy than teaching a woman how to destroy a knee.

I'm in a trans self defense group and I wouldn't expect the ones teaching me to teach cis people not to attack us.

Of course it would be different if they were men (for the first part) or cis (for the second part).

Ricardo Harvin Jan 6, 2023

@lilianalytic Please carefully reread my post and recognize my core argument, the fullness of which can't be condensed into one post.

Alex Coventry Jan 6, 2023

@ricardoharvin @lilianalytic I guess it depends on who "you" is in your initial toot. If "you" is society in general, I agree with you. If "you" is someone teaching self-defense to women, it's a ridiculous and harmful argument, frankly.

Elizabeth Neal Jan 6, 2023

@ricardoharvin This reminded me of Rebecca Solnit's "The Case of the Missing Perpetrator."

https://lithub.com/rebecca-solnit-the-case-of-the-missing-perpetrator/

She writes, "Men are abstracted into a sort of weather, an ambient natural force, an inevitability that cannot be governed or held accountable. Individual men disappear in this narrative and rape, assault, pregnancy just become weather conditions to which women have to adapt."

Rebecca Solnit: The Case of the Missing Perpetrator

In a detective novel, you begin in a state of ignorance and advance toward knowledge, clue by clue. The little indicators add up at last to a revelation that sets the world to right and sees that j…

Literary Hub

Spinner Jan 6, 2023

As usual, I get a bit angry when something is presented that ignores the plain fact that men and boys can be victims, and that women and girls can be perpetrators. Just because men are more likely to attack or accost, doesn't mean we should diminish the plight of male victims. Let's teach PEOPLE how to not attack.

Ricardo Harvin Jan 6, 2023

@Lane Reread my post. Your comment is unrelated.

Ravencaller Jan 9, 2023

@ricardoharvin I would say that it’s a men’s mental health issue and needs to be addressed as such. Toxic masculinity cuts both ways. When men feel they can’t express their emotions safely, or that they’re weak to seek help, it causes undue stress and leads to men snapping and seeking control however they can. This leads to sexual assaults.

Ricardo Harvin Jan 10, 2023

@ravencaller Toxic masculinity is certainly a major factor.