MorganSounds like someone hasn't heard of this One Cool Trick (lesbianism)
Dan SeitzI'm a cis man and I've been hearing masculinity is "in crisis" since I was eight. So far as I can tell the "crisis" is "I can't act like an asshole anymore."
Oh it's David French. Of fucking course.
@Dseitz I'm just remembering that article about how it's hard for cishet men to get dates now bc of stuff like MeToo
Skyler (Star Group)@raphaelmorgan @Dseitz oh fuck is it one of those guys?
i initially read this as meaning that men have to learn to stop being assholes in order for any heterosexual marriages to work
i suppose this guy thinks the whole problem is men not being "masculine" enough though
i initially read this as meaning that men have to learn to stop being assholes in order for any heterosexual marriages to work
i suppose this guy thinks the whole problem is men not being "masculine" enough though
@AlienSkyler @Dseitz I thought that too but I didn't actually read it so I wouldn't know. My one indication was the comment "of course it's Author" which leads me the believe it might be the latter
This is pretty much what an asshole he is in a nutshell, from Wikipedia:
"In August 2017, French was one of several co-authors of the so-called Nashville Statement, which affirmed "that it is sinful to approve of homosexual immorality or transgenderism and that such approval constitutes an essential departure from Christian faithfulness and witness."
Beyond that, I was raised for a fair chunk of my childhood by a single dad, and the David Frenches of the world gave me a lot of shit for it.
Andrew LeaheyYou have to consider the words you use, the assumptions you make, and the actions you take. Can you imagine?! It's like all of a sudden we're asked to take a modicum of responsibility for ourselves.
Appalling!
/s
Right? Like, this is what we used to call "manners" and "mature behavior."
LibertyForward1@Dseitz @raphaelmorgan I'm too lazy to try and insert a standing ovation meme but yes
Wile Entertainment Coyote@Dseitz @raphaelmorgan but you still can! It’s just that sometimes someone might tell you.
Adam Schmidt@Dseitz @raphaelmorgan And it's the same damn arguments. Right now they bitch about "being woke", but before that it was SJW's, and before that it was "being politically correct". But all of those terms have been about treating others with respect. And yes, sometimes that means helping people or working to repair a more lasting harm.
And at the end of the day, there's another term for acting like that, it's "good people"
Frank Cote@Dseitz @raphaelmorgan I've been hearing the same since the sixties. Masculinity isn't in crisis it's emotional intelligence. Violence is the default men fall back on when their emotions get the best of them. Especially when faced with someone smaller/weaker.
I am grateful I have left this far behind in my life. Also it's surprising how many small kids are being taught conflict resolution and emotional management skills compared to when I was a kid.
@Dseitz @raphaelmorgan I know! It's great and very helpful. They are working with the bullies early on, to break those habits young.
Owen Pike@Dseitz @raphaelmorgan the Venmo diagram of “masculinity” and “insecurity” is a circle for these types as near as I can tell (also cishet).
@Dseitz @raphaelmorgan venn FFS Apple autocarrot!
lippard✅
@Dseitz @raphaelmorgan If Paul Fairie (@paulisci) hasn't already done a series on newspaper clippings about that going back many decades, I'm sure he could.
@lippard @raphaelmorgan @paulisci
Dates back to at least the Romans.
SmittyHalibut@Dseitz @raphaelmorgan Cosigned from another cishet man.
Robert Mader@Dseitz @raphaelmorgan AFAICS that's unfortunately not what the data we have tells us. Boys falling behind ever more in education is something we should have started to address 30 years ago - it's only got worse since in most OECD countries. Gender gaps of any nature getting bigger is nothing we should simply ignore or laugh off. And blaming it on boys (read: kids) is probably not helping either :/
@rmader @Dseitz I don't think anyone here is blaming it on children. But I would guess that if girls are getting educated more than boys, it might have to do with the fact that women only get as much respect as men (hardly) if they're educated--perhaps boys aren't working as hard on their education because they know they don't really have to.
Black women are the most educated demographic in the US and I *guarantee* it is not due to any ease or privilege in their education.
Black women are the most educated demographic in the US and I *guarantee* it is not due to any ease or privilege in their education.
@raphaelmorgan @Dseitz "Black women are the most educated demographic in the US" This appears to be a misunderstanding: https://familyinequality.wordpress.com/2016/06/07/no-black-women-are-not-the-most-educated-group-in-the-us/
Black women still have less degrees than whites and asians, both women and men.
In fact the data to me looks like the black community is simply the worst affected by the widening gender gap in education - which would be somewhat expected if we're dealing with a structural issue. And that would IMO speak against your theory.
I wasn't talking about kids, unless we're talking about grown men acting like children.
@Dseitz @raphaelmorgan I was referring to the fact that boys already do worse in education than girls before they had the chance to become grown men. So there's likely something bad going on that can not be fully blamed on the affected group. Thus there's a responsibility for the rest of us to check if we can do better (especially as education is usually a public matter). Note intersectionality seems to play a role here: the effect appears to be especially strong in disprivileged groups.
And I wasn't talking about that. Not being an asshole has nothing to do with your level of education.
You're trying to change the subject. I don't know why. But it's not helpful and it's not appreciated.
@Dseitz @raphaelmorgan Lets recapitulate:
1. you were referring to an article that explicitly refers to education as an area of "crisis" for men.
2. you said from your perspective you don't see that / you only see something else (IIUC).
3. I said the data we have on education supports the argument of the author and contradicts your position.
IMO this is perfectly on topic. In short again: the available data suggests your personal experience doesn't reflect the factual situation at large.
I don't care about your opinion. Learn to take a hint.
@Dseitz @raphaelmorgan The issue is: you have made a _public_ statement, based solely on personal experience, that is, at least partly, contradicted by widely established data. Doing so and then asking to not get challenged on that is not cool.
Dogzilla@Dseitz @raphaelmorgan I’d never heard of David French. Now that I have, I realize there’s absolutely no reason for this clown to have any space in my head. Clearing that memory now