Mastodawn

Mastodon•ART 🎨 Curator

We've silenced mastodon.se and will suspend in a week.

https://blog.mastodon.se/inl%C3%A4gg/%C3%A5siktspolis/

This is a blog post by the admin of mastodon.se where they acknowledge that they have 'anti-political-correctness' accounts, anti-abortionists, harassers, etc. (there are neo-nazi adjacent accounts on there), saying they won't action their accounts because they don't want to be the 'thought police'.

As these kinds of accounts directly threaten the safety of the marginalised people on .art, we'll be defederating.

Åsiktspolis

Update clarification: I want to re-affirm that Mastodon.se has rules against xenophobia, transphobia, among other things, and we will uphold these rules. Nothing has changed on that front. The users who inspired this post had not broken any of those rules. This post was made to try and define how Mastodon.se will handle when reports come in for accounts that are simply openly affiliated with a certain political party, without having broken any rules yet.

@Curator I hope one day that people realize that ignoring a problem or not stopping it = supporting the problem

Hexenkönigin Dec 26, 2022

@LibreNyaa @Curator "neutrality means that you don't really care, cuz the struggle goes on even when you're not there." Rise Against, Collapse (Post Amerika)

Lorry Dec 27, 2022

@Hydaelyn @LibreNyaa @Curator I kinda gave up reading at the phrase:
"I've known gay people all my life".

Hexenkönigin Dec 27, 2022

@Lorry @LibreNyaa @Curator "I can't possibly be [x]ist. I once had an [xyz] acquaintance!"

Lorry Dec 27, 2022

@Hydaelyn @LibreNyaa @Curator Do you reckon he had a black friend at school once, too?

John Bailey Dec 26, 2022

https://www.reddit.com/r/TalesFromYourServer/comments/hsiisw/kicking_a_nazi_out_as_soon_as_they_walk_in/

Kicking a Nazi out as soon as they walk in

*(transcribed from a series of tweets) - @iamragesparkle* I was at a shitty crustpunk bar once getting an after-work beer. One of those shitholes...

reddit

progressiveartist Dec 27, 2022

@isucceed @Curator I remember reading that one when it was posted.

Gigawatt121 Dec 26, 2022

@Curator So long and good riddance.

okayherewego Dec 26, 2022

@Curator
@chad - something for mstdn.ca to consider as well?

@chad @Curator @okayherewego I’m wondering if we already are bc I just attempted to search for anyone on that instance and couldn’t find a thing.

okayherewego Dec 26, 2022

Admittedly, I hadn't checked. I'm still getting to know how to use the app, which I understand is not yet feature-complete. I dont currently have a desktop so I'm just making do with this for now.

Tim J Dec 26, 2022

@okayherewego @Yup_Its_Holly

If you've not tried the mobile interface in a phone browser, do. I've not used any of the apps, but I've seen a few people who have say they prefer the mobile browser version.

The Spoonless Kitchen Dec 27, 2022

@okayherewego @Curator @chad mstdn.ca needs to clean their own house first.

https://epicure.social/@thespoonless/109577257137113606

The Spoonless Kitchen (@[email protected])

Attached: 2 images epicure.social peeps, I know you know I hide my non-foodie posts behind CW, but PLEASE consider reboosting this one? OPEN LETTER TO ALL ZEROES.CA AND ZERO COVID PEOPLE ON MASTODON. I tried to write another response on the below post (screenshot attached) but the bad state actor "nosferatu.mstdn.ca" has deleted the post, AND MY REPLY (screenshot attached). PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE fact-check EVERYTHING BEFORE you boost. As you can see from the below (now deleted ofc because this is the same bullshit they pulled on Twitter), the bad state actors HAVE FOLLOWED US HERE. I get it. I do. I can't afford to catch the plague, either, not now, and maybe not ever, at the rate things are going. These bad state actors are deliberately targeting the vulnerable (whom they see as "useless eaters" or "economic burdens" depending on which bad state it is) and trying to sow division between us and the TABs. And IT IS WORKING. I BEG you to please VERIFY EVERYTHING before you boost. ESPECIALLY zeroCOVID.

Epicure Social

Sabine Dec 26, 2022

@Curator thank you

Artist Merryjest Dec 26, 2022

@Curator thank you

Beanie MacIntosh Dec 26, 2022

@Curator @trumpet should @mastadon.scot be looking at this?

@Curator based .art.

Sheila DeBonis Dec 26, 2022

@Curator This is an instance that serves Swedes and Swedish speakers, I take it? I am somewhat surprised that the "skinhead" demographic is growing, as Sweden had been such a liberating stalwart for progressive ideology. But attitudes change, and fascist, authoritarian nationalism has come into fashion across other large nations, like India, China, Hungary, Turkey, and (especially) Russia. Good on you for taking action. I hope the good Swedes find a new instance.

Day Dec 26, 2022

@sheiladebonis @Curator That's what sucks about this, I think. A lot of people who have nothing to do with this stuff will also get defederated.

Mastodon•ART 🎨 Curator Dec 26, 2022

@thymos @sheiladebonis Then they should approach the instance admin and demand they do better, or move to an instance that doesn't tolerate hate speech. :)

Day Dec 27, 2022

@Curator @sheiladebonis Sure, but meanwhile they've been blocked, right?

I'm on a big server, bad stuff could happen here beyond my control and without my knowledge, and then I would get defederated. And then I would have to move to another server or complain and wait for stuff to change. It just sucks.

I'm sure that the vast majority of users on that server did nothing wrong but they do have to suffer the consequences. And it might scare people off of the platform.

Paul H (he/him)Dec 27, 2022

@thymos @Curator @sheiladebonis it's not difficult to join a new instance and why would anyone want to continue to support an instance that believes in giving support to openly hateful individuals? Many folks have no issue leaving a place that gives leeway to hate.

Kelli Blue 📸Dec 27, 2022

@thymos @Curator @sheiladebonis my prior mastodon experience was on a server that had been limited or defederated by much of the fediverse, and the instance eventually shut down on 30 days notice even though it was the 3rd most popular mastodon server 🤷🏼‍♀️

So federated social media may have a good case that “no oligarch can buy it and ruin it”, but it’s still too unstable for the average, mainstream social media user 🤷🏼‍♀️

Joy Denebeim Dec 27, 2022

@thymos @Curator @sheiladebonis the size of the user base is one of the deciding factors of whether to defederate or not. If your server got the federated that's because they were causing damage to other people and refusing to do something about it for long enough time that it's worth losing that many people

Octavia con Amore Dec 27, 2022

@thymos
@Curator @sheiladebonis
If you're on an instance where you're not sure whether the admin will take a stand against Nazism, I'd recommend moving to an instance where you are. As large as mastodon.lol is (77k?) and as many users as might be on it, I have a fair amount of confidence that our admin and mods will generally act in a way that keeps us federated with the instances I care to interact with, and mastodon.art looks that way as well.

ja2ui0 Dec 27, 2022

@thymos @sheiladebonis @Curator This is a wildly underrated comment and should bubble up.

I've noticed a trend toward defederation and I'm not about to stake my reputation, as insignificant as it is, on an opinion about what merits federation and what doesn't.

What concerns me is the effort made to tell refugees to "just pick an instance and everything will be fine" when picking an instance is not easy, and everything will NOT be fine.

Day Dec 27, 2022

@jq @sheiladebonis @Curator Indeed! When I was looking into Mastodon and choosing an instance, I had no clue about what's what. There's no way to tell how the admins will deal with situations in the future, especially all the admins of all the other instances you may want to follow accounts from. And yet this may have been a crucial choice.

ja2ui0 Dec 27, 2022

@thymos @sheiladebonis @Curator

I'm sorry to type this as I type it anyway, but I'm pretty sure I have close to zero faith in the ability of instance owners and their trusted mods to differentiate good faith from a sack of scrambled eggs.

That's really the only part of the Fediverse that I dislike. I don't trust the people in charge, including if that person is me.

Day Dec 27, 2022

@jq @sheiladebonis @Curator Yeah, that's the problem. I've definitely made some bad decisions myself as a moderator in the past, and it would be wholly unfair if thousands of others would have to pay the price for that.

ja2ui0 Dec 27, 2022

@thymos @sheiladebonis @Curator and around the drain we swirl.

I detest behavior that harms marginalized people. I respect the right for those same people to participate in communities, if they like, where encounters with detestable people are inevitable.

Instance moderation makes us all children to a parent entity which controls content.

I think community moderation is important, and not a responsibility to be taken lightly. I think silencing thousands of people...

1/2

Kelley Graham Dec 28, 2022

@sheiladebonis @jq @Curator defederation does not silence anybody. It is simply a choice to not listen to awful stuff. Let’s be clear at what’s really going on here.

mathew Dec 26, 2022

@sheiladebonis @Curator I have some bad news about Sweden: The “Sweden Democrats” who originated as a neo-Nazi party recently won 20% of the vote:
https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2022/9/15/iop-forum-sweden/

See also:
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1582963344314880001.html

‘I’m Scared’: Former Swedish PM Stefan Löfven Addresses Victory by Swedish Right-Wing Bloc at Harvard IOP Forum | News | The Harvard Crimson

Former Swedish Prime Minister Stefan Löfven addressed the victory of the right-wing bloc in his country’s parliamentary election at the IOP's JFK Jr. Forum on Wednesday.

Jonas Hellö Pr.D.Dec 27, 2022

@sheiladebonis @Curator Sweden has been horribly racist for ages. They only PRETEND to be progressive.

Jyoti Mishra Dec 26, 2022

I'm gonna go with the cliche but true, "If you have a table with five Nazis and someone chooses to sit with them, you have a table with six Nazis."

#FuckNazis #Antifa #PunchANaziEveryday

Eric Dannewitz Dec 26, 2022

Sad they won't moderate. Sorta a thing you have to do if you are running an Instance.

Mastodon•ART 🎨 Curator Dec 26, 2022

@ericdano Yeah. "I want to give space to people to change their minds" is fine if you're an individual - not if you're hosting a public forum with a responsibility to the users of that forum and the places it connects to.

Eric Dannewitz Dec 26, 2022

Yes. I have had to wield the moderation hammer a couple of times in the week or so since I went form 10 users to 1600 users.

Mastodon•ART 🎨 Curator Dec 26, 2022

@ericdano A bunch of fedi admins have piled into the .art Discord backrooms where we communicate on problems and support each other, if you'd be interested in joining?

Eric Dannewitz Dec 26, 2022

@Curator Sure, DM me

DrumHead Dec 26, 2022

@Curator I'm on just 170 users here on Drumstodon right now, but I would be interested too, if possible...

Michael Downey 🧢Dec 26, 2022

@Curator @ericdano

Any reason y'all don't join the federated Mastodon Admins chat on Matrix? 600 of us:

https://matrix.to/#/#mastodon_admin:matrix.org

You're invited to talk on Matrix

You're invited to talk on Matrix

Jeroen Franssen 🇧🇪Dec 26, 2022

Eric Dannewitz Dec 26, 2022

@downey @Curator

Uh.....cause I don't know about it?

Kelli Blue 📸Dec 27, 2022

@downey @Curator @ericdano wait, mastodon admins don’t have a private place to collaborate on their own network?

Tim W Dec 27, 2022

@downey @Curator @ericdano speaking for myself, Matrix is "a platform too far", don't want to add more to my comms platform overload.

Michael Downey 🧢Dec 27, 2022

Interesting perspective. I use #Matrix to connect to literally every other communication platform, so I only have one to manage.

@Curator @ericdano

Tim W Dec 27, 2022

@downey That is an intriguing option. Looks like it basically requires you to run your own Matrix homeserver? Might be worth it to consolidate though... @Curator @ericdano

Michael Downey 🧢Dec 27, 2022

@tw That's one way. Also there are hosting providers that offer bridges, such as the Element project team that have a personal level option with several popular services:

https://element.io/element-one

Element One | All messages in the Element App

Bring your WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram chats into Element. It’s Element, hosted and bridged, for speed and ease.

Michael Downey 🧢Dec 27, 2022

@tw If people want to self-host (which, like Mastodon, is ideally better for the long run) there is a relatively low-effort option available using Ansible & Docker:

https://github.com/spantaleev/matrix-docker-ansible-deploy

GitHub - spantaleev/matrix-docker-ansible-deploy: 🐳 Matrix (An open network for secure, decentralized communication) server setup using Ansible and Docker

🐳 Matrix (An open network for secure, decentralized communication) server setup using Ansible and Docker - spantaleev/matrix-docker-ansible-deploy

GitHub

Joy Denebeim Dec 27, 2022

@ericdano @Curator The thing is you don't. People are free to be as free speech as they want just as we are free to not listen to them. So it's a value judgment. They can have their Nazis or they can have half of the fetaverse where the other half has them blocked.

Eric Dannewitz Dec 27, 2022

@denebeim @Curator

My value judgement is that I am going to block them. That sort of stuff doesn’t add anything to my instance nor to society at large.

Joy Denebeim Dec 27, 2022

@ericdano @Curator I agree that is mine as well. But I can't make that call for all servers. The only thing I can do is black hole them and I'm okay with that

Joy Denebeim Dec 27, 2022

@ericdano @Curator remember these aren't businesses, the servers belong to individuals with their money. So you can't really tell them what to do without paying them

Eric Dannewitz Dec 27, 2022

@denebeim @Curator
Right......and I run one as well. And If I deem that their "free speech" about Nazi's, child porn, harassment, etc is not something I want to deal with, I am going to block them.

So some people are giving the owners/moderators a chance to change course and moderate their instance, and that is fine.

If they don't, they are going to end up being blocked.

I do think we need a better LIST of what sites instances are blocking and why they are blocked.

Joy Denebeim Dec 27, 2022

@ericdano @Curator rapidblock.org their list includes the reason for the block so you could filter on it

Eric Dannewitz Dec 27, 2022

@denebeim @Curator

But this is one of the problems, there are like 3 or more (I keep finding more) sites where these are all listed.

There really should be ONE place for this.

Joy Denebeim Dec 30, 2022

@ericdano @Curator if I replying to what I think I replying to, I disagree. I think that there should be several moderation groups that have different standards or biases or whatever. Then you subscribe to whichever one you want or several of them. Any time there's centralized anything it makes a single point of failure. Better to have multiple independent bodies

Mastodon•ART 🎨 Curator Dec 27, 2022

@ericdano @denebeim our block list is public (at https://mastodon.art/about) and people are welcome to copy it. It mostly has all the reasons listed. :)

Mastodon.ART

Mastodon.ART — Your friendly home on the fediverse for all things creative, all on a platform that is community-owned and ad-free. NO AI OR NFTs ALLOWED.

Mastodon hosted on mastodon.art

Joy Denebeim Dec 30, 2022

@ericdano @Curator yeah that's what rapid block gives you. It tells you the name of the place and why they should be blocked.

Eric Dannewitz Dec 26, 2022

Will follow suit. Can you hash tag further instances that are suspect with #fediblock

And should there be someone/somewhere updating a list?