Elon Musk's JetDec 25, 2022
Landed in Denver, Colorado, US. Apx. flt. time 1 Hour : 43 Mins.
Show threadElon Musk's Jet
886 mile (770 NM) flight from SMF to BJC

Flight Fuel Info ```
~ 868 gallons (3,287 liters).
~ 5,820 lbs (2,640 kg) of jet fuel used.
~ $5,514 cost of fuel.
~ 9 tons of CO2 emissions.```
Dec 25, 2022 at 6:03amMastodon for iOS
Show threadsusanDec 25, 2022
@elonjet this is horrible for our planet.
Show threadcowboybanjobiker šŸ¤ šŸŖ•šŸš“Dec 25, 2022

@elonjet

Ever notice #ElonMusk doesn't fly in an EV jet?

Show threadJonKramer, CIS-HETDec 25, 2022
@cowboyminer @elonjet neither does Biden.
Show threadElonJet LoverDec 25, 2022
@JonKramer @cowboyminer @elonjet Pretty cool whataboutism, bro. Merry Christmas :)
Show threadPatrickDec 25, 2022
@cowboyminer @elonjet yeah. There actually is a 30 seater electric jet that's ready to go or almost ready.. Guess he won't have one because he doesn't actually give a flying f...
Show threadRichard ReichDec 25, 2022
@elonjet
So the CO2 emissions is roughly three times the fuel by weight. I'll never understand chemistry.
Show threadBrandon H  Dec 25, 2022
@elonjet you should equate this to miles in, say, a 30mpg gasoline vehicle as well. Like an offset of Tesla's purported planet saving.
Show threadBart de VriesDec 25, 2022
@rrrrrichard @elonjet Nor do I, but I reckon the C is in the fuel and the O2 in the air. This would add up to three times the fuel as CO2?
Show threadkatrinaDec 25, 2022
@elonjet @rrrrrichard @bartdevries Carbon is 12u, Oxygen is 16u, so 12u of Carbon would produce 44u of CO ā‚‚.
The fuel isnā€™t coal. There is some hydrogen in it as well which burns to produce water.
Show threadBart de VriesDec 25, 2022
@rrrrrichard @katrinatransfem @elonjet There we go. A proper chemist. Offourse I forgot about atomic weight and yeah the hydrogen.
But at least I had the principle right of how you produce more CO2 than you had fuel šŸ™ƒ
Show threadGerrarrdusDec 25, 2022
@bartdevries @rrrrrichard @katrinatransfem @elonjet you did a good and sensible way of approximating it.
Show threadBigsmiffyDec 25, 2022

@rrrrrichard @elonjet

Oxygen is heavier than carbon, and two are attached to each carbon

The oxygen comes from the air

Show threadPhanes Versicolores (es/sein)Dec 25, 2022
@rrrrrichard
CO2 consists of three atoms. One carbon and two oxygens. the carbon comes from the fuel and the oxygen comes from the air and hasn't been in the fuel at all. So two thirds of the atoms come extra on top. The weight of carbon and oxygen is very roughly similar, so that in the end you have three times the amount of co2.
Show threadJoelleDec 25, 2022

@rrrrrichard @elonjet Yes, the O2 comes from the air. The hydrocarbon molecules consist of H + C. The H is very light, the C is much heavier so dominates the weight of the fuel. C and O are near each other on the same row of the periodic table, so they weigh nearly the same.

So ignoring the H (which gets turned into water and not counted--the contrails you see) the majority of the fuel weight gets combined with twice as much in weight of oxygen (O2), so, yep, roughly 3x.

Show threadRichard ReichDec 25, 2022

@joelle

@elonjet

That makes perfect sense. Too easy. What about Avogadro's number and the other stuff that makes my head hurt? (Just kidding, thanks, I get it.)

Show threadPaul WintzDec 25, 2022
@rrrrrichard @elonjet When fuel burns, it creates CO2 that has one carbon atom from the fuel and two oxygen atoms from the air. Hence, the total weight is ~3x the amount of fuel burned. (It isn't exactly 3x because some other byproducts are created, and oxygen is somewhat heavier than carbon.)
Show threadMarcFromSparkDec 25, 2022
@rrrrrichard @elonjet
As an mere approximation:
the carbon (molucular weight 12) comes from the fuel and the oxygen (2 atoms with molucular weight 16=32) comes from the air.
Its not that simple but by that you know why there is more CO2 than fuel.
Show threadBjƶrn BƶhmeDec 25, 2022
@rrrrrichard @elonjet if you burn carbon in a long molecule (in any kind of fuel), every c. atom connects to two oxygen atoms to become carbon dioxide. As carbon and oxygen have (kind of) the same weight, the total amount of mass set free by this burning is the mass of the fuel unit plus the mass of two oxygen units. So itā€™s tripled.
You could also say, the atmosphere loses two tons of oxygen with every ton of fossil fuel burnt.
Hope my English is understandablešŸ˜‰
Show threadJennifer GallaysDec 25, 2022
@babelsberg @rrrrrichard @elonjet
Very understandable English. Thanks for this explanation. I hadnā€™t thought of it this way before.
Show threadBjƶrn BƶhmeDec 25, 2022
@JenGallays @rrrrrichard @elonjet me neither, until I started thinking about Richardā€™s questionā€¦
Show threadHannes LerchlDec 25, 2022
@rrrrrichard @elonjet "fuel" consists of long chains of C with H. By burning it, you add two O (from the surrounding air) to each C.
C has an atomic mass of 12u, O has 16u, take away the Hs - > you end up roughly with factor 3.
Show threadJames R.Dec 25, 2022
@rrrrrichard @elonjet I don't know if you were looking for the answer, but if so, it's actually one of those "not obvious until it's pointed out" scenarios - the emissions are made up not just of the fuel, but of the massive amount of air that's combusted along the fuel. We often don't think about the weight of the molecules in our air, but it adds up, in cases like this. More info here: https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=82&t=11#:~:text=The%20amount%20of%20carbon%20dioxide,air%20to%20make%20CO2.
Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

Energy Information Administration - EIA - Official Energy Statistics from the U.S. Government

Show threadKat BristowDec 25, 2022

@rrrrrichard @elonjet This is a common physics misunderstanding, rather than chemistry.

Kg/pounds/tons are a measure of mass, not weight. Gas is less dense than liquid, and jet fuel has a density of 3.16.

Weight is a force of attraction that two bodies in space have, so weight in physics is measured using Newtons.

Show threadneuronalemuetzeDec 25, 2022
@rrrrrichard
The Oxygen(O) of the CO2 is added from the air.
Show threadJack The AdultDec 25, 2022
@rrrrrichard @elonjet the emissions from drilling, extracting, refining, and delivering the fuel are likely included, as these emissions would not exist if there were no demand for said fuel.
Show threadJack The AdultDec 25, 2022
@rrrrrichard @elonjet Iā€™m no scientist, but also, weā€™re talking about CO2. Is CO2 emitted directly from the fuel, or only carbon that then combines with atmospheric O2? If itā€™s the latter then that would account for some of the weight as well.
Show threadRyan AddessiDec 25, 2022
@rrrrrichard @elonjet one carbon atom from the fuel plus two oxygen atoms from the atmosphere create one molecule of co2 which is roughly 3x the weight of the carbon. There is also hydrogen in the fuel but that is much lighter.. blah blah blah generalizations. TLDR the oxygen used in combustion adds to the weight :)
Show threadbruni Dec 25, 2022
@rrrrrichard @elonjet I was thinking the same. how could there be more CO2 introduced than the fuel that was burned?
Show threadJM MD PhDDec 25, 2022
@rrrrrichard @elonjet fuel can be approximated as CH2 ā€¦ CO2 is ~3x as heavy
Show threadPatrickDec 25, 2022
@rrrrrichard @elonjet I don't understand chemistry too but the oxygen that's in CO2 isn't in the fuel.
Show threadsimonhowesDec 26, 2022
@rrrrrichard @elonjet Iā€™d like to know how bad are Falcon and Starship are per flight. RP1, methane, and awful hypergolic fuels, how do they compare.
Show threadAvishek  Dec 26, 2022
@rrrrrichard @elonjet could it be the atmospheric oxygen that binds to it when burning?
Show threadRayADec 26, 2022

@rrrrrichard @elonjet Yes, it's about 3 times the fuel weight used:

https://www.offsetguide.org/understanding-carbon-offsets/air-travel-climate/climate-impacts-from-aviation/co2-emissions/

CO2 Emissions - Carbon Offset Guide

Carbon dioxide (CO2) is emitted during the combustion of kerosene jet fuel (referred to as ā€˜jet fuelā€™): 3.16 kg CO2 are emitted per kilogram of jet fuel combusted (ICAO, 2017). The CO2 emissions during the production of kerosene (including transport...

Carbon Offset Guide
Show threadSilicasDec 26, 2022
@rrrrrichard @elonjet The oxygen comes from the air, the carbon comes from the fuel.
Show threadL'ArakidoDec 27, 2022
@rrrrrichard
I'm no chemistry wizard either. But this one is fairly simple. Jet fuel contains about 80 percent carbon. In the combustion process oxygen from the air is added. The oxygen weighs roughly 3 times as much as the carbon, hence the higher weight.
Show threadTheMagicalCDec 30, 2022

@elonjet @rrrrrichard

The fuel is made of hydrocarbons, which are carbon chains with a bunch of hydrogens attached to them. The fuel is mixed with oxygen and burned, and the hydrocarbons are torn apart.

Two hydrogen atoms combine with one oxygen atom to form water, H2O. Each carbon combines with two oxygens to form carbon dioxide, CO2.

Now to explain the weight difference, we have to introduce the unit of moles. (1/2)

Show threadTheMagicalCDec 30, 2022

@elonjet @rrrrrichard

One mole is 6.022 x 10^23 atoms. (This number is called Avogadroā€™s number.) One mole of carbon atoms weighs 12.01g, a mole of oxygen atoms weighs 16.00g, and a mole of hydrogen atoms weighs only 1.01g.

Assuming each carbon in a hydrocarbon is one ā€œlinkā€ and has two hydrogens attached, each mole of ā€œlinksā€ in a hydrocarbon chain weighs 12.01 + (2)1.01 = 14.03g. When burned, the carbon becomes CO2: 12.01 + 2(16.00) = 44.01g of CO2. (2/3)

Show threadTheMagicalCDec 30, 2022

@elonjet @rrrrrichard

Thatā€™s 44.01g CO2 per 14.03g of hydrocarbon, which is approximately 3.137 times as much by mass.

I hope this explanation was clear, let me know if you have questions.

(3/3) (yes I thought this would only take 2)

Show threadorionDec 25, 2022
@elonjet a suggestion is to compare the co2 emission to the average persons daily or yearly emission
Show threadKlarnameDec 25, 2022
@elonjet is this real-time or with a delay of 24 h?
Show thread0bondo7Dec 25, 2022
@d4m13n @elonjet real time!
Show threadWegaDec 25, 2022
@elonjet its a disgrace
Show threadWilliam ScullyDec 25, 2022

@elonjet

Thank you for this interesting service.