Big Joelmastodon please let me see the likes and number of comments a post has at a glance. i feel like i am shouting in an empty hallway. i feel very alone all the time
I feel like it's a conscious design choice to de-emphasize caring about that kind of thing?? but it really makes the site feel like not a soul is ever on it. i dislike it a surprising amount lol
Natalie 🪗@biggestjoel it is kind of a conscious design choice (although it also has to do with the federated nature of the fediverse). I think one of the philosophies of Mastodon + The Fediverse is not to reduce social interactions to just... numbers and instead focus on real interaction. I guess that sounds a bit preachy, but you don't see people on here saying "LMAO RATIO GOTTEM" every 5 seconds like you see on Twitter, and I think that's for the best.
Kavi 🌉🚱@natalie @biggestjoel this is one of the things I don't really like about mastodon, they seem to be trying to make it less addictive or whatever but it mostly seems to consist of degrading the experience by removing basic features
Like I've never actually seen a ratio derail a conversation that otherwise seemed like it might be going somewhere
@notkavi ratios don't really derail conversations but I just feel like ratioing is a symptom of what happens when people get completely obsessed with the numbers on social media. and to me personally it's just a bit upsetting to see that
@natalie people aren't obsessed with the numbers, they're interested in the popularity that underlies the numbers. It's like a more personally directed twitter poll
@notkavi I mean the numbers obviously represent "clout" I'm mostly not talking literally here... (but things like just replying "ratio" on a post are so divorced from any actual social interaction that I basically see it as just a pure fixation on numbers). Anyway, I just personally don't really like the quantification of clout to be so emphasized on social media. It's always going to be there in some capacity, but I just think it can get people too fixated on raising those numbers to feel happy and I personally don't like that.
Texas Red@biggestjoel I think part of the issue is that the concept of likes on Twitter and other social media sites, while they may have given people a sense of community engagement and feedback, were only ever a means by which the corporations running those sites could analyze their userbase for better targeted advertisements.
But, it's fine to want to have the sense of community engagement back. I think that will come with time, when more and more followers make the leap to mastodon.
@TexasRed @biggestjoel what? If they provide the first service they necessarily don't just provide the second one
I'm not saying that serving advertisements to users and likes are inherently linked, I'm saying that the design of likes in old social media sites did have them inherently linked. When users post to other sites how other users are served those posts is driven by likes, but mastodon is, and as far as I know always will be, purely chronological, so they don't serve a useful purpose beyond the poster's personal affirmation.
I don't think that's necessarily healthy.
@TexasRed @biggestjoel mastodon still tracks likes internally though? Displaying likes was always a feature for users not the algorithm (since it's a feature about display)
The difference being it does not serve you posts that other people who have been determined to be similar to you by the algorithm liked, doesn't artificially push your messages out to people who outside the web of immediate follows. Boosts will push things to the followers of followers, etc. But merely being popular won't put a post in my home feed if it wasn't put there by someone I care about.
@TexasRed i mean that's fine and good but largely unrelated to the issue we're discussing (the lack of display in the UX on some clients, including web)
ValeriethelovelydeadlyItalian@biggestjoel yea its really weird, the sort of design this platform has
Spud Mackenzie (ꈍ ꒳ ꈍ✿)@biggestjoel feed the void. Feed it with your screams. It hungers.
But in seriousness theres other interfaces than the instance web interface that show this. Like i'm on the mastodon for android app rn and it shows numbers for all the interactions in the timeline view. There might be a more tweetdeckesque app that gives you a better overview of your metrics.
Gwen_Fay 🏳️⚧️@biggestjoel This says alot about how twitter trains users to care more about the reaction to a post, than the content of a post.
With the first twittermigration wave, old users described this site like lots and lots of coffee tables, where you can sit down and chat with someone or a small group of people, before getting up and moving to the next table.
I think this is a consequence of mastodon's goal to be systematically designed against harassment. Its very hard to dog-pile here.
vanoreo@biggestjoel the effort to de-emphasize metrics, while also sending you a notification for every individual interaction on multiple platforms
Edgar C
Mithrandalf@biggestjoel I think its based on which wrapper you're using. For me the desktop default app doesn't show anything, but the official mobile app does.
Agreed though its kinda awful on a pure vibe metric. Empty gmod server jubies.
Lucy WinterI mean, you went from having 170k followers to having like 100. It's bound feel a bit lonely for a little while at least. I had 600-odd followers on Twitter, and coming here felt like getting an absolute torrent of engagement by comparison.
Without the algorithm, you sort of have to tell Mastodon what you want to see yourself, by hashtagging, following, and engaging with other people's posts.
EDIT: On closer inspection, it actually does seem like your likes and boosts are just not showing up. There might be a lag on mastodon.social with all the new accounts.
Lindsay Ellis@biggestjoel yes it is, don't listen to him, john mastodon
Glen Mastodon ☠@lindsayellis @biggestjoel Yes John Mastodon, don't listen to Joel Mastodon!
Tommi@biggestjoel I use an app called Tusky that also doesn't show numbers without going to the specific toot. Used to dislike it but now I'm all for it.
I feel like I now post more of what I think and less what I think would get reactions.
Boathouse@biggestjoel This feels like the biggest problem with #mastodon right now. Even when you follow a bunch of people, it seems empty.
Todd in the Shadows@biggestjoel I was warned that Mastodon would not be Twitter methadone but this is the biggest reason why. I like to see numbers go up, I can't lie
cursed_tuna
hast thou considered the tetrapod
ftzpltc@biggestjoel - It's "decentralised". I think that means it has to fail?
Austin LeSure@biggestjoel Glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. Hoping its an easy fix 🤞
@biggestjoel This is an intentional design choice. You must see the content of a post before you can see it's ratio.
Mastodon is made for people who hate twitter.
Sam Humphreys@biggestjoel it says +1, what more do you need to know? But yeah, visible numbers would be nice and once you start getting multiple likes/retoots it'd be nice if the notification feed collapsed them down.
At least turning off the sound was easyish to figure out...
At least turning off the sound was easyish to figure out...
NekoAlice@biggestjoel Halcyon is an interface for Mastodon that tries to imitate Twitter's design, and you can see the likes and comments on posts. https://halcyon.cybre.space
2-bits@biggestjoel not a total solution, but there are apps for mobile and desktop that can give you what you want. This is how your account looks on the official mastodon app.
Euaveri@biggestjoel thank you for encouraging the shift over here! Until the place becomes a little more optimised, I hope this makes you feel less alone. Happy holidays!
Kozu 🌵@biggestjoel I think showing those things depends on what app you're using, or maybe what instance your account is on. The mastodon app shows them just fine, but logging into desktop they don't appear.
@biggestjoel the best way to use mastodon is via a 3rd party app. None of them a Perfect, many of them are still in beta test, but a lot of them better clients than mastodon web interface. I am using mammoth app on my iPhone that shows replies and likes numbers, but a lot of them do the same.
SupposeNot@biggestjoel this seems like a client feature thing, since there information is available…
Tarbuck Transom 🌹@biggestjoel Are you on web or an app like Husky, or the "official" app that's only like 6 months old and missing lots of features
sam.sh@biggestjoel I promise you'll get used to it in like 3 days.
Sean Lake: famous ballet 
@biggestjoel It’s great to see you! Your Little Joe videos have genuinely helped me feel less lost and alone during the twitter Situation.
It’s not all roses here, and some of the small tips for newbies in particular made me want to rip my skull from my spine as a preemptive measure. That said, I pretty quickly found I was having a lot of fun here. I feel so much less stressed than I have on social media since before algorithms. I do hope that maybe you’ll be able to enjoy those things as well.
I would like to point out that feeling like you’re shouting in an empty hallway 2-3 days after creating an account on a new social media platform is normal. If it never gets much better or this just isn’t the place for you, that sucks, but it happens, and I’ll see you in your videos. But I do selfishly hope you’ll give it a bit more time, because I think it would be cool to read your posts here.
Yeah, it’s pretty clunky.
twitterRefugee032394@biggestjoel which one is the like? is that the star 'favourite'?
Raccoon ✅@biggestjoel I know the feeling exactly! I'm wondering if there should be an app made for people who want to use the site to publish content for mass viewing, or maintain a brand presence, or whatever, which could show stuff like that along with some analytics...