mogitaDec 13, 2022
Ben Sandofsky

Experimented with reach on Twitter vs Mastodon by sending the same “canary” post on both platforms. I saw about the same engagement on both, despite having 4% the followers here.

Feels like the value of Twitter’s network is overestimated. If you’ve been there 10+ years, I bet most of your followers are inactive, and it’s harder than ever to get your tweets viewed because of the algorithmic timeline. Mastodon might be at the point where it delivers the same value. At least in my circles.

Dec 12, 2022 at 5:40pmMastodon for iOS
Show threadJoefrey Kibuule, MDDec 12, 2022
@sandofsky I have forgotten since I’ve always used Tweetbot that the algorithm drove who got engagement more than anything else. It’s meant to hype up controversy.
Show threadDonncha Ó CaoimhDec 12, 2022
@sandofsky I get way more people engaging with me here. Hardly anyone ever noticed my daily photos on Twitter but I have nice conversations with people here!
Show threadWhyamihereDec 12, 2022
@donncha @sandofsky Twitter is a permanent equation: source creates divisive content retweeted by gazillions of #bots from Far East and #russian bot farms. 10 years ago people still believed in the ‘algorithm’ story, but we’ve had Cambridge Analytica since. #mastodon will never reach that definitive blueprint because of its #infrastructure (though the risk of illegal servers is high). With this said, #indexation needs to become a thing soon if mastodon is to last.
Show threadFredlDec 13, 2022
@whyamihere @donncha @sandofsky good points, what is indexation in this context?
Show threadDonncha Ó CaoimhDec 13, 2022

@fredl @whyamihere @sandofsky he probably means full text searches of Madison posts instead of just hashtags. I don't think that is necessary at all and it's one of the strengths of the system.

That said, I bet someone has hooked the federated timeline to an elastic search database and can look up keywords now. They'd have to keep it secret or risk being blocked.

Show threadMike McCullochDec 13, 2022
@whyamihere
I didn't realize posts here aren't indexed.
@donncha @sandofsky
Show threadchriszanfDec 13, 2022
@donncha @sandofsky Are you just posting those here or are you using Pixelfeed?
Show threadDonncha Ó CaoimhDec 13, 2022
@chriszanf @sandofsky I'm just posting them here. I don't have the energy to maintain more than one federated regularly.
My blogs are instances but get no notice and my photoblog is on pixelfeed but it doesn't seem to be picking up recent posts at all.
Show threadchriszanfDec 13, 2022
@donncha @sandofsky Well, I like the ones at the top of your feed so Im following for more! 😀
Show threadDonncha Ó CaoimhDec 13, 2022
@chriszanf aww, thank you! Have to post another one shortly!
Show threadchriszanfDec 13, 2022

@donncha Im with you on the street photography - its not only capturing life but its archival: capturing that time and place, the culture, fashions, architecture, commercial culture with shops and brands.

Looking through old street photos are like a time portal!

Show threadDonncha Ó CaoimhDec 13, 2022

@chriszanf funny you should mention a time portal. I also run @oldphotosofcork, but I haven't had time to post more than a handful there yet. Not enough hours in the day.

I think there's a similar account for Dublin photos somewhere.

Show threadTom WalkerDec 12, 2022
@sandofsky Yeah, Twitter follower counts effectively only go up (you can make it go down a little but really have to *try*) so it's just a vanity metric. People get all excited about how they are speaking to however many thousand people but they are not.
Show threadKaroliDec 13, 2022
@tomw @sandofsky this. And this is why I have maintained from the start that the real value in the social network is who one follows, not their followers.
Show threadBaratundeDec 12, 2022
@sandofsky good test gonna try this out
Show threadAlex VolkovDec 12, 2022
@sandofsky It could be also that people react more to these kind of posts on mastodon than on twitter. Mastodon is an emerging thing. This experiment needs more data with regular kind of posts.
Show thread🎓 Doc Freemo  🇳🇱Dec 12, 2022

@sandofsky Its also possible that mastodon users are more likely to engage in posts that show mastodon as superior whereas twitter accounts are likely to not care and ignore it... This doesnt neccesarly demonstrate how frequently a post is seen.

That said it does show, and my expiernce agrees, that you get far more engagement on the fedi.

Show threadFord EytouDec 12, 2022
@freemo @sandofsky Def need to fall back to the classic, generically cute cat videos metric .
Show threadMartin Vermeer FCDDec 12, 2022
@freemo @sandofsky That could be a partial explanation, but I suspect that of the current Mastodon user base, this kind of 'partisan' is a small minority. I will confess to belonging to it though 🤣 Also, favoriting is an almost zero-cost courtesy that doesn't test motivation.
Show threadMikko AlasaarelaDec 12, 2022
@sandofsky I've seen similar results. Mastodon is simply a more evenly distributed network in terms of attention.
Show threadSam GrossDec 12, 2022
@sandofsky @anildash I’ve also noticed a huge drop in “organic” engagement on Twitter — my friends are seeing my stuff less than ever. Why would I spend time there if my friends are elsewhere?
Show threadMichael W Lucas Dec 12, 2022

@sandofsky

My results were similar.

If you interact well and have vaguely interesting posts, you'll accumulate a network despite your best efforts.

Show threadBuckDec 12, 2022
@sandofsky Another test you could run is posting something like: "Got Covid, but symptoms have been mild. Happy to be vaccinated and will be wearing masks this Winter" .... and just watch the cacophony of "awful" that will rain down on you from the bird site
Show threadSteffen VoßDec 12, 2022
@sandofsky But you forget, that you will be able to pay Twitter to show your Tweets to more people. 😉
Show threadEyeInHandDec 12, 2022
@sandofsky Might be something that evolves down as mastodon scales. Hard to say at this point. But once you follow enough people, a single post drops below the fold on your timeline really quickly. Would have to get boosted by others in your follows to keep appearing at the top?
Show threadRhinestone SquirrelDec 12, 2022
@sandofsky I am definitely getting more engagement here on Mastodon than I did on Twitter.
Show threadTyler McGeeDec 12, 2022

@sandofsky I’ve done this as well, noticed the same thing.

Same post on both platforms, slightly more attention on Twitter depending on the post but much higher quality engagement here.

Show threadAnarchy HowDec 12, 2022

@sandofsky And this occasions us to think about how and why we think about "value" in terms of "engagement".

Seems like we'd still playing the algorithm's game of optimization for some further end (profit? clicks... profit?).

I dunno though.

Show threadWill SmithDec 12, 2022
@sandofsky I've had a similar experience despite a 100x bigger network there, supposedly.
Show threadktDec 12, 2022
@sandofsky I suspect the same. I was on the bird for 12 years or so, in a kind of town crier role. Mostly retweeting pro democracy stuff. I fired #elonmusk yesterday for good. I always FIRE BAD LEADERSHIP. Quitting by walking away. #FireElonMusk #twittermigration
Show threadJasmine DiazDec 12, 2022

@sandofsky I don't even need this test to tell you that engagement is significantly better here.

Twitter is for the birds (pun intended).

Show threadwhetstoneDec 12, 2022

@sandofsky Are these the respective like/favorite numbers as of just now? That’s amazing.

I’ve been having conversations about the fediverse’s relative unfriendliness to activists, who need (or maybe just believe they need?) more Twitter-like features to accomplish their goals. In the absence of quote-boosts or algorithmic boosting, I wonder how the tools available could be leveraged to make meaningful activism possible here.

But a call-to-action experiment would be more difficult to design...

Show threadRozzychanDec 12, 2022

@whetstone @sandofsky

I think the real issue is the interpretation of what effective activism looks like on this platform.

People are so used to equating reach with like counts that they aren't appreciating that this system was designed to depress accurate counts.

If people start counting effectiveness by conversations started and issues discussed instead of raw number counts, I think they will get a better response.

#activism #fediverse #mastodon
(also, use hashtags)

Show threadwhetstoneDec 12, 2022

@Rozzychan @sandofsky I think people are also (justifiably) panicking that a tool they had mastered and were using for extremely important things is no longer accessible. For them, to re-create that tool as precisely as possible would be a net good.

I’ve just been thinking a lot about how activism works, strong ties versus weak ones, and how the slower/quieter community here could actually be more powerful once activists make it their own.

Show threadwhetstoneDec 12, 2022

@Rozzychan @sandofsky

The unavoidable and horrible thing is that, in the absence of a workable Twitter tool, lives activists there could literally have saved will be lost.

Even if my instinct’s correct that slower and deeper connections can also lead to meaningful (more durable) change, the people fleeing here from that lost platform are rightfully traumatized by losing it.

I wish those fired Twitter employees had stood up a clone immediately.

Show threadRozzychanDec 12, 2022

@whetstone @sandofsky

Twitter employees are likely to be limited by agreements and NDAs.

Show threadwhetstoneDec 12, 2022

@Rozzychan @sandofsky You’re probably right. That was more a wistful wish than anything.

The good parts of Twitter were intensely powerful, and it’s so sad that they can be taken away so easily.

Show threadWTFDec 12, 2022
@sandofsky idk When I tweet I get many responses too many to read. I’ve tweeted and had over 450000 views. You can tell on the analylitics.
Show threadMargotBDec 12, 2022
@sandofsky Same here. But I can't make this test anymore because I have left Twitter some weeks ago.
Show threadIván Cavero BelaundeDec 12, 2022
@sandofsky I suspect the other thing that’s going on is that there is already too much content on Twitter. Assuming chronological timeline, if peeps are not on the app at the right time, they’ll just miss the tweet, awash in a sea of them.
Show threadIván Cavero BelaundeDec 12, 2022
@sandofsky am also surprised to see so few views on your tweet - I have an order of magnitude fewer followers and per “Tweet Activity” my typical (not heavily liked/RTd) tweet gets ~300 impressions.
Show threadFat_Al_NYCDec 12, 2022
@sandofsky Does anyone have a sense of how many people on Twitter actually use the algorithmic "home" timeline versus "latest posts"? I haven't used the home timeline in eons (I do use MailBrew to aggregate and see what I missed periodically).
Show threadIsaac Erbele, MDDec 12, 2022
@sandofsky I've heard reports of twitter giving warnings for mastodon links. I do wonder if they're adjusting the algorithm to suppress any tweet with the word "mastodon." It wouldn't be hard to do
Show threadAlisonW ♿🏳️‍🌈♾️Dec 12, 2022
@sandofsky
/me notes that I see this because it was boosted...
Show threadsuldrew 🚲🏳️‍🌈Dec 12, 2022
@sandofsky I am getting about the same engagement with 1/10 the followers here
Show threadGary OwenDec 12, 2022
@sandofsky I followed you here in part because of seeing that post on twitter, so the migration isn't complete but certainly in progress.
Show threadMaëlDec 12, 2022
@sandofsky I've seen à very different pattern on both platforms. Some of my posts work better on Mastodon, some twitter.
Show threadLARabbitDec 12, 2022
@sandofsky interesting. Just moved to Mastodon today after a long time on Twitter. Some learning curve but getting more familiar
Show threadtichoDec 12, 2022
@sandofsky What happens in 10+ years here on Fediverse, though? You will have a lot of inactive followers here as well, unless there is some kind of automatic pruning of inactive accounts, which I don't think there is.
Show threadSirpushalotDec 12, 2022
@sandofsky same
Show threadTaro🌎Dec 12, 2022

@sandofsky Twitter's becoming as relevant as MySpace.

Up yours, Elon✌️😄

Show threadDoctor M. PopularDec 12, 2022

@sandofsky I tried some similar experiments the week before I finally quit Twitter. 8k followers there and about 500 hear, yet I consistently saw higher engagement and click throughs here. (click throughs to my blog, bandcamp page, youtube post, etc).

I was still fairly active on Twitter at the time and imagined it would be hard to quit, but those tests helped me realize Twitter is already a bit of a ghost town.

Show threadJonathan-FL 🇺🇸🇺🇦🇵🇸⚛️💙Dec 12, 2022
@sandofsky -
1) I agree that "reach" is higher here than on Twitter. I get more response from 1000 here than from 8000 there.
2) As to trolls, I find more here (and my experience is probably highly atypical): no MAGAs, but some Zionists attacking my support for a #FreePalestine, a Serb attacking my characterization of the 1999 Kosovo genocide, and LOTS of anarchists or near-anarchists far to the left of Sanders/AOC assaulting me for being a Mainstream Democrat.
3) Plus, ...
Show threadJonathan-FL 🇺🇸🇺🇦🇵🇸⚛️💙Dec 12, 2022
@sandofsky -
... there are a dozen twitter accounts. like Michael McFaul, that I'm not willing to forgo.
Show threadPari Moon-ForestDec 12, 2022
@AmerLiberal you can make a suggestion that they try Mastodon-I'm dealing with that myself RN...but ultimately if Musk is cranking out that kind of hate (today was awful) I will NOT support the people who support him. And honestly, I know I won't miss them.
Show threadJonathan-FL 🇺🇸🇺🇦🇵🇸⚛️💙Dec 12, 2022
@PariMoonForest -
I do promote Mastodon, but accounts with a half million followers aren't even going to see my tweet, let alone act on it.
These are great people who are making a difference in the world with their work, and trying to get their message out. That Musk benefits is an unfortunate side effect.
Stopping Musk is in my top-10 list of priorities, but it isn't my only priority.
Show threadLuusDec 12, 2022
@sandofsky Felt very similar for me tbh
Show threadNotMyBub Dec 12, 2022

@sandofsky Twitter is like yelling into a forest.

While mastodon is like talking in the cabin.

Show threadTim Ellis (he/him) DJDynamicNCDec 12, 2022

@sandofsky I spent a bit of time learning how to manipulate the algorithm and got good at it (I swear I only used these powers for good lol) but I like that there is no algorithm to game here.

That said: the reach prospect for Twitter (for people doing maximization games) is less about average engagement per post, and more about how far your top posts go - standard 80/20 stuff, most of your reach and new follows come from a handful of hit posts.