Get On The BlowerDec 9, 2022

In an unexpected turn, we've found ourselves blocking the official #RaspberryPi instance today, basically until they put an adult in charge of it.

If anyone really wants to learn how a relatively beloved and respected brand can burn a staggering amount of good will in record time, @aurynn has written up a very good case study of the event:
https://eiara.nz/posts/2022/Dec/09/a-case-study-on-raspberry-pis-incident-on-the-fediverse/

A Case Study on Raspberry Pi’s Incident on the Fediverse

A short case study covering what happened with Raspberry Pi on the Fediverse.

Show threadOlav
@geton @aurynn this is an honest question, in case I missed something: are they being defederated for doing something egregious, or simply because they're complete assholes?
Dec 9, 2022 at 7:55amWeb
Show threadMike [SEC=OFFICIAL]Dec 9, 2022
@olavf @geton @aurynn what exactly do you imagine is the difference between those two things?
Show threadOlavDec 9, 2022
@mike @geton @aurynn the difference being a couple assholes is something an individual should decide. Admin level instance blocking needs to be for egregious reasons. A last resort. Otherwise the Fediverse will actually disintegrate. You might have things okay in your TOS but someone might not like and you're next.
Show threadMike [SEC=OFFICIAL]Dec 9, 2022

@olavf @geton @aurynn what exactly do you think isn't egregious about the official brand account of an electronics company being indistinguishable from a "couple assholes"?

The fedi is working just fine, mate.

Show threadOlavDec 9, 2022
@mike @geton @aurynn they're not actually doing anything egregious though. To my knowledge they're not harassing people. They're not abusing hashtags. They're not even posting disturbing images. They're just (apparently) assholes, which should be an individual opinion since it doesn't really affect anyone that isn't following them.
Show threadAurynn ShawDec 9, 2022
@olavf @mike @geton the best part about fedi is that you’re entitled to find an admin that believes that, and move there.
Show threadOlavDec 9, 2022
@aurynn @mike @geton blocking entire instances because your admin doesn't like them is not the best part of Fedi. I'm not just talking about RPi. admins want t to make their own corner that will get smaller and smaller as they keep ganging up on the s.ite of the week. I suppose I wish them well and come back someday
Show threadAurynn ShawDec 9, 2022
@olavf @mike @geton it works amazingly well for us, and if you don’t like it, you can find an instance that doesn’t defed, so we can defed it for you.
Show threadOlavDec 9, 2022
@aurynn @mike @geton y'all have made your choice, and I think we can agree to disagree. Just don't defederate the instance I'm on for my account
Show threadMike [SEC=OFFICIAL]Dec 9, 2022
@olavf @aurynn @geton I don't agree to disagree. You're just wrong.
Show threadOlavDec 9, 2022
@mike @aurynn @geton okay
Show threadTim Fisher 🇺🇸Dec 9, 2022
@mike @olavf @aurynn @geton Wow. Now who's being the dick?
Show threadMike [SEC=OFFICIAL]Dec 9, 2022

@aurynn @olavf @geton we have the users we have BECAUSE we do proactive work like this.

They are not our hostages, and you're not even one of our community so why are we even having this discussion? Go run your own place however you want and we'll look after ours.

Show threadOlavDec 9, 2022
@mike @aurynn @geton I thought we were talking about the Fediverse in general, but you have your rights and I will bow out now
Show threadTim Fisher 🇺🇸Dec 9, 2022
@aurynn @olavf @mike @geton The irony of this comment is absolutely incredible.
Show threadAurynn ShawDec 9, 2022
@tf @olavf @mike @geton What irony? Instances that don't defederate get themselves on fediblock pretty quickly.
Show threadTim Fisher 🇺🇸Dec 9, 2022
@aurynn @olavf @mike @geton Okay, when two admins don't get along, you believe defederation is the optimal path forward. Anyone that doesn't agree with you should also be defederated. But disagreement is not an isolated condition, it's humanity. The policy that rudeness should be met with retaliation, escalation, and ultimately defederation is just plain wrong. Long term, such a policy leaves everyone as an island. How is that good for Fedi?
Show threadAurynn ShawDec 9, 2022

@tf @olavf @mike @geton The Fedi is a loose federation of networks, not a single network. Anything you see as "the network" is an emergent effect of admins doing a lot of work defederating and cleaning up.

There is no contiguous whole, and never will be.

Admins are responsible to their own users. If they make bad choices and don't moderate properly get their instance defederated, their users will leave.

Show threadmathewDec 9, 2022
@geton @olavf @aurynn @mike What they did was piss off a bunch of admins. If they’d done the same on Twitter and been insulting to Elon Musk, they’d have been banned globally from the service. Here, because of federation, they’re only blocked by some parts of the network. So while you might not like it, what happened here was better than the alternative.
Show threadMike [SEC=OFFICIAL]Dec 9, 2022

@olavf well don't sign up on any of the instances I run then. Problem solved!

If you don't like my moderation policy, you get to fuck off elsewhere or run your own setup. How great is that?

Show threadQueen of AnxietyDec 9, 2022
@mike @geton @aurynn @olavf What do you think is the difference between “being an a-hole” and “harassing” someone? It sounds like “being an a-hole” to you means being free from the consequences of behavior that causes harm to others. If someone acted like this in person, would you think differently of them? Online spaces have generally lacked the ability to implement the same sort of social ostracizing that we might do to someone in person.
Show threadQueen of AnxietyDec 9, 2022
@mike @geton @aurynn @olavf The Fediverse allows us to say “I find this pattern of behavior unwelcome in my life.” You might not find it a problematic behavior, but clearly many people did. I invite you to consider why other people might not be willing to put up with behavior that you don’t seem to consider worth dealing with. Do you disagree with their position and think any negative response to it is warranted?
Show threadQueen of AnxietyDec 9, 2022
@mike @geton @aurynn @olavf If so, would you put up with the same behavior if you were in a store trying to address an issue with a product? If you felt a store employee was being an a-hole, and you tried to talk to them, and they responded with consistently a-hole-ish behavior, would you not be disinclined to shop there? Would you not tell your friends about how awful the experience was? Is your reaction online different than in person?
Show threadQueen of AnxietyDec 9, 2022
@mike @geton @aurynn @olavf If so, that may be because online spaces have been so controlling of what they show you and how unwilling they are to punish harmful acts that everybody just shrugs about it, even with so many stories of cyber-bullying leading to suicide. Please pause and think about these things before continuing to advocate for “a-holes.”
Show threadCellularMooseDec 9, 2022

@olavf
If you don't like the moderation on the instance you are on, you can very easily move to another one that matches your views better. Or start your own.

That way you can decide your own rules, and other people can decide theirs.

That's the beauty of this whole thing.

@mike @geton @aurynn

Show threadJames HenstridgeDec 9, 2022

@olavf @mike @geton @aurynn The normal response to a couple of arseholes on an instance is to report their posts and have that instance's moderators deal with the problem.

In this case, it's an instance with one user and they don't seem to be doing a good job of moderating themselves.