Mastodawn

Strypey Jul 23, 2020

Yet another reason why the benefit payment functions of WINZ need to be absorbed into IRD and managed as reverse taxation:

"Associate Professor Lisa Marriott, from Victoria Business School, has spent six years looking at the unequal treatment of people who commit welfare fraud compared with those who commit tax fraud, with her research showing that beneficiaries are treated more harshly at every turn."

https://www.wgtn.ac.nz/news/2017/08/why-is-tax-evasion-treated-more-gently-than-benefit-fraud2

#LisaMarriott #TaxFraud #SocialWelfare

Why is tax evasion treated more gently than benefit fraud?

Associate Professor Lisa Marriott, from Victoria Business School, has spent six years looking at the unequal treatment of people who commit welfare fraud compared with those who commit tax fraud, with her research showing that beneficiaries are treated more harshly at every turn.

Strypey Jul 23, 2020

"... welfare fraud of $3.4 million, where all was repaid (and more), resulted in 10 years in prison — while white-collar crime of $4.3 million, where none was repaid, resulted in less than two years in prison."

From the article linked upthread. This is a shocking double standard.

Strypey Jul 23, 2020

... and this was exactly the point that Metiria Turei was politically crucified for making:

"Paying benefits at a level that makes it difficult to survive — even if it’s for a temporary period — makes some of the reasons for welfare fraud seem not only justifiable, but potentially unavoidable."

Again, from the article linked upthread.

Mark McGuire Nov 30, 2022

Surveilling, punishing, and imprisoning the victim has always been a successful, if cynical, vote-getting strategy. And bashing beneficiaries in the news is one way to distract us from the legal and illegal financial crimes committed by wealth individuals and corporations every day.

Strypey Dec 1, 2022

@mark_mcguire
Beneficiaries pay much more tax, as a proportion of our income, than the wealthy.

Our benefit payments are taxed. Scaremongering figures about the cost of the benefit system to the country, often fail to account for the fact that we pay about 8℅ of that ourselves from our benefits.
Then if we can get part-time work we pay secondary tax on what we earn. We pay tax again on most of our income when we spend it because of GST.

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#tax #SocialWelfare

Strypey Dec 1, 2022

Contrast this with a person who bought a property in a desirable area in 2007, and sold it in 2018. They could be clearing $600,000 in capital gains over that time:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/election/2017/07/housing-capital-gains-are-soaring-in-new-zealand.html

The lack of a capital gains tax after 10 years, means the public has forgone taxes roughly equivalent to paying them an untaxed W&I benefit every year for 10 years. Plus, if they use that income to buy a business as a going concern, they pay no GST on it.

Welfare for the rich :/

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Three NZ

Mark McGuire Dec 1, 2022

New Zealand is the only country in the OECD with no capital gains tax.

Property owners & speculators are a significant proportion of the electorate, & they are more likely to vote than non-property owners. The government courts their vote with policies that encourage investment in property and ensure that owners & investors become wealthier. It’s a conscious strategy to transfer wealth from younger, poorer New Zealanders to those who are older, wealthier and politically influential.

Strypey Dec 2, 2022

@mark_mcguire
> It’s a conscious strategy to transfer wealth from younger, poorer New Zealanders to those who are older, wealthier and politically influential.

Agreed. One reason I support lowering the voting age to 16.

Yes, I've read some compelling arguments in favour of lowering the voting age in NZ to 16 (which I support as well).

I've been following Bernard Hickey's 'The Kākā ' Substack. He makes some good points.

https://thekaka.substack.com/p/a-chance-to-close-our-democratic#details

A chance to close our democratic deficit

Listen now (10 min) | Labour to propose Parliament votes to lower voting age to 16, but National and ACT say they’ll oppose it, which would make required 75% ‘super-majority’ almost impossible; Possible for councils though

The Kākā by Bernard Hickey

Strypey Dec 2, 2022

"We don’t want 120,000 more voters who pay no tax voting for lots more spending."

“... you will pay extra tax for whatever crazy thing 16 and 17 year olds voted for at the last election.”

#DavidSeymour, 2022

I hope 16-17 year old kiwis remember, when you do get to vote, that this is what ACT think of you. For those who turn 18 before the next election - or have friends who do - remember National are depending on that patronizing libtard's party to form a government.

Strypey Dec 2, 2022

Also Seymour is just factually wrong. Thousands of kiwis under 18 are in paid work, remember them David? The ones you want to be paid less than minimum wage, by restoring "youth rate" discrimination? They probably pay more income tax per dollar of income than you do. But there's also the fact that every kiwi under 18 pays GST every time they go shopping, just like everyone else does.

Mark McGuire Dec 2, 2022

@strypey The rich “pay less of their income in tax than the poor do" if we include income from capital gains, according to Inland Revenue research. This backs up your previous points.

DO THE RICH REALLY PAY THE MOST IN TAX?
https://www.inequality.org.nz/understand/rich-really-pay-tax/

"More than 40% of millionaires paying tax rates lower than the lowest earners, Government data reveals"
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300238241/more-than-40-of-millionaires-paying-tax-rates-lower-than-the-lowest-earners-government-data-reveals
#Tax #Taxes #Inequity #NZ #CapitalGains #CapitalGainsTaxNow

Do the rich really pay the most in tax? – Inequality: A New Zealand Conversation

Liam Dec 2, 2022

@strypey I think the tax-buys-a-vote view is wrong. Every person affected by the law should get a vote. The reason children are excluded is because their worldview is still being sculpted by their parents and teachers. They don't understand the law well because they don't participate in society like most independent people do, and live under stricter rules.

Reducing the voting age encourages idealistic policies that are less rooted in reality.

Strypey Dec 5, 2022

@liamdiprose
> Reducing the voting age encourages idealistic policies that are less rooted in reality.

See:
https://mastodon.nzoss.nz/@strypey/109443092598607622

As Bernard Hickey said in the piece @mark_mcguire linked, plenty of people over 18 are profoundly ignorant about political-economic reality. Would you support imposing a competency test on them before letting them vote? Because what you're defending for those 16-17 is a competency test that automatically fails them.

Strypey (@[email protected])

Content warning: NZ politics

Mastodon - NZOSS

Liam Dec 5, 2022

@strypey
My argument applies to 14yr olds as well. What is your reasoning for a voting age of 16, and not 14?

Me: It comes down to a test of maturity ability to understand society, and make responsible decisions. I believe the age most kiwi's leave home is the bare minimum age that enough begin to understand our society.

I'm not a fan of competency tests due to their complexity (who sets the tests?), but age is a simple, fair, and necessary one, in my opinion.

Strypey Dec 5, 2022

@liamdiprose
> What is your reasoning for a voting age of 16, and not 14?

Bernard Hickey makes a pretty compelling case. 16 being the age of consent for sex was one point he raised. Evidence voting earlier locks in the habit too.

But the question works just as well in the opposite direction, why 18 and not 20? On average, human brains don't finish maturing until 25, why not make that the voting age?

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Strypey Dec 5, 2022

@liamdiprose
> the age most kiwi's leave home

These days many people don't leave home until well into their 20s. I left home at 17, by which time I was paying far more attention to politics than the 18 and 19 year old rugbyheads I ended up living with. I'm not sure 'not living with your parents' is a cut and dried maturity test ;)

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Liam Dec 10, 2022

@strypey
No test is perfect, so I guess it's silly to defend a specific age.

If someone doesn't vote, they're either happy with the status quo, or plan to make the system irrelevant by leaving or rebellion.

I don't think reducing the voting age will do much to help represent renters and the poor.
We need the asset-poor's pain to reach the majority of voters. Wage inflation is here, which benefits younger people and will give them a chance to buy into the system.