Scott Hanselman 👸🏽🐝🌮I am SHOCKED that QR Codes actually happened. I would have *never* bet on this ridiculous tech, but as soon as all phones built it into the camera app, then restaurants decided that a QR code pointing to a freaking PDF in Dropbox was a valid menu, it was over. The avalanche had begun, and it was too late for the pebbles to vote.
mistakenot@shanselman PDF restaurant menus are so user hostile
Derrick Brundage@mistakenot @shanselman I own a restaurant. I don't disagree with you, but there are compelling internal reasons that make it hard to avoid.
Peter Rojas@shanselman It does speak to how much power Apple and Google have over seemingly small things like this.
Rilindo@shanselman Sick Vorlon reference.
@rilindo thanks for noticing!
sandy@shanselman @rilindo oh hell yes I came here to say the same!
How will this end?
Kosh: In QR codes
Adam Fields@shanselman it’s almost like standards are useful
@fields this wasn’t a standard. It was apple and google putting it in the camera that moved the needle. The pandemic was the “no touch” push that caused restaurants to make the move.
@fields (yes it’s a standard but standardization isn’t why it popped last year)
@shanselman I mean standard in the sense that it’s an easy free way for anyone to offer a page that can be easily opened by scanning with the camera. The relevant thing here is that it’s built in to the camera and doesn’t require an app, so by default everyone has it and businesses know that if they use it anyone will be able to take advantage of it. The restaurant menu thing was a useful application of it, but far from the only one.
@fields right, my point is that the technology is literally almost 30 years old and it was bumping around for years and people were trying to force it to happen, then the pandemic happened, then restaurants picked it up, and the whole thing blew up in literally a year and a half.
@shanselman Certainly there was a confluence of factors, but if it had still required an app to download to scan codes, no way would it have taken off in the same way.
@shanselman I don't think there's anything particularly special about QR codes. It could have been any sort of bar code reader that could encode a URL, and restaurants would have used whatever that was as long as it was built in.
herchenroder@fields @shanselman yeah there were QR codes at places like outdoor market vendor tents or business cards, but you had to install a separate app. Once the phone OS camera could do it, there was no stopping it. My boss even started a company trying to make it easier to manage your own QR code content. I’m not spamming so I won’t link. But we have thousands of retail “Smart Shelf Tags” in natural food stores. All because the camera does it. Crazy.
A:\lex 
@shanselman @fields Wait, year and a half? I swear I've been seeing QR codes everywhere for at least a decade if not more at this point.
Mike Mathews@shanselman We started using QR codes at trade shows almost 20 years ago and they codes really took off in the EU right after that. Don't you think that was sufficient time for the general public to pick up the technology?
@memathews they were still largely niche until 1-2 years ago. The pandemic was the no-touch push they needed.
B.C.@shanselman @memathews
I would see it everywhere before the pandemic, especially on event posters. Maybe it got more popular in certain areas?
I would see it everywhere before the pandemic, especially on event posters. Maybe it got more popular in certain areas?
Mira Mechtley@shanselman Especially given how long they were kicking around being extremely niche before they started being used for restaurant menus during covid restrictions.
Mark Demeny@shanselman Covid was literally the only reason this fundamentally unfriendly (and security-risky) format ever gained traction. Who knows, if this thing had hit before every phone had a camera, we might all be walking around with Cuecats. 😬
sluggard 
@shanselman @mdemeny I should have kept that idiotic thing, but my wife (correctly) considered it clutter. I had two of those things.
I have a drawer full of cables I could have kept that thing in.
I have a drawer full of cables I could have kept that thing in.
@sluggard @shanselman @mdemeny oh wow I have one of those. My grandma was throwing it out in the early 2000s and I thought it would be cool to keep. Been in a junk cable drawer for 20 years!
ladeak 
@shanselman also much easier for them to change prices regularly: no need to reprint the menu.
Jake Carpenter@shanselman Restaurant menus definitely seem like the weirdest use of the tech - but I think the pandemic pushed that a lot and I'm OK with it in general because of that.
They clearly need to learn to adjust their format better for mobile devices though.
Phil
Thommy@shanselman I wanted it to be a thing a long time ago, when it was already a thing in Japan, gave up on it happening, then many many years later it finally caught on in the US. I guess sometimes the chance for something catching on doesn't pass by so quickly.
XVar@shanselman QR codes are a great technology in terms of packing machine readable information into an image, but PDF menus should definitely have stayed as a temporary COVID-19 safety measure. Especially larger menus that aren't just a list, I don't want to be panning around on a phone screen playing hunt the dish!
rye@shanselman About a decade or so ago some friends had the idea for restaurants to use a QR code + app to order from the menu and have items delivered to the table based on the QR code. Before it's time.
@rmaloley and now I’m in the Newark Airport and ALL THESE IPADS that used to have menu apps are just glorified Qr Code signage
@shanselman Yes they are. Amazing how things turn out in the end.
Levi Strope@shanselman They spread like.. you know.
alan 
@shanselman next thing you know, some joker is gonna make *a clock* outta QR codes... what's the world coming to?
@TheIdOfAlan @shanselman Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should!
Darrell@shanselman i can still walk away from the restaurant
Jacob Marshall@shanselman why do you say it’s ridiculous tech? I know they’re kinda ugly, but they’re so easy to recognise, and work rather well (when scanning them, I mean).
Krizzzn@shanselman worst thing about it’s success: it killed one of my favorite jokes on the internet: https://www.tumblr.com/picturesofpeoplescanningqrcodes
Armin Hanisch@shanselman Reading PDF on mobile is a special kind of torture.
There is however (here in Europe) a growing number of restaurants that actually point to a menu as a responsive site. If the menu is PDF, I tell them my age, show the PDF and ask for a paper menu. Works great. ;-)
There is however (here in Europe) a growing number of restaurants that actually point to a menu as a responsive site. If the menu is PDF, I tell them my age, show the PDF and ask for a paper menu. Works great. ;-)
Matt Gajownik@shanselman I do hope we can one day move to NFC tags instead of QR, but I often see both combined anyway so I'm pretty happy.
Unfortunately no matter the access solution, "PDF on Dropbox" is very much an indicator of general tech know-how.
MostlyBlindGamer@shanselman I like it when the paper menu has a QR code: options! I like it even more when the online menu is an accessible website.
Niels Basjes 🇳🇱 👨💻@shanselman In some restaurants over here it is a link to a restaurant+table specific online ordering app. Also, I ran into this a while ago https://github.com/ciaochaos/qrbtf which makes visually impressive QR codes that actually still work.
Jos noemt het gewoon melk@shanselman Is the QR xode the problem here? Would NFC be better if eventually your still have a PDF menu?
Andrew France@shanselman don't forget QR codes were used for COVID vaccination certificates throughout Europe. That was a big thing legitimising them.
bigsamol@shanselman From your post, I get the impression you don't like QR codes? If so, why not? Otherwise, sorry for assuming.
@sao they assume a lot. They aren’t the lowest common denominator. They assume everyone has a phone with data and can use it. Paper is cheaper and simply works. I find them dehumanizing when used in restaurants
@shanselman When used to provide a menu they are a massive accessibility feature for anyone with low vision that can still use a screen. I don't have to pull out a camera to use as a magnifier when there's something to pinch and zoom.
Of course, a responsive site would be an improvement over PDF as others have mentioned. Except when sites try to prevent zooming. At that point it crosses back into visual-impairment-hostile territory.
2¢@shanselman @sao paper assumes everyone can read.
@Qbitzerre @sao that’s a pretty good assumption given that they have made their way to the airport and are now preparing to order food and pay for it. Are you saying that the QR code is more familiar than reading?
@shanselman @sao I'm saying that many assumptions are good ones, particularly in airports. I assume those who print QR codes are aware that some curmudgeons won't use them, but discount them.
@shanselman @Qbitzerre In my eyes, it's safe to assume in the western world that someone has a phone with connectivity (if they're in a place that's using them- like a restaurant). Agreed they're not more familiar but they don't need to be? Although, I can agree that - particularly in higher-end restaurants - I would go for a nice paper menu **any day of the week**.
ktanner 
@shanselman QR-code menus are the worst. Once everyone pulls out their phone to look at the menu the conversation pretty much does.
Kevin Montrose@shanselman it's like the... 900th worst thing that happened because of Covid. But I too am very bitter about it.
Marc Backes 
@shanselman oh how much I hate those PDFs. Gotta scroll and zoom around like crazy. Horrible UX.
Lee Holmes @shanselman At least we've lived to outlast the QR Code standards battle. Companies treating the technical capability of these things (i.e.: Microsoft Tag) as the hard part of the problem, rather than making them easier for everybody to use.
Matt Campbell@shanselman I would have preferred a QR code pointing to a nice accessible HTML page. Too bad PDF was easier to retrofit into existing tools.
AJ Firewolf@shanselman omg. I do want a pdf of every restaurant I've been to on my phone, just give me a real web page. Heaven forbid you go somewhere more than once. OurFood(6).pdf
Morgan Davis@shanselman QR codes are today’s D-to-A / A-to-D format. Just yesterday day it was fax, and before that software loading from cassette tapes. One day we’ll look back at QR and think: quaint, right?
kdacar