Jeff JarvisNov 25, 2022
I should share that I was an advisor briefly to Post.news, asked to put together an advisory board. I withdrew for various reasons -- disagreement about another advisor and about federation -- and have no ties to it now. I received nothing. I like Noam, its founder, and respect his work (Waze!). I'll watch Post. But I'm much more engaged here and want to study and learn about the potential of federation -- ActivityPub, Bluesky, Scuttlebutt -- as a model for public discourse.
Kevin SicklesNov 26, 2022
Show threadAaron Ross Powell ☸️
@jeffjarvis
It's deeply frustrating watching my friends who ought to know better—journalists, tech policy people, etc.—acknowledging that Twitter's on the outs, but then getting excited about moving to yet another closed, proprietary platform.
Nov 25, 2022 at 3:21pmFedilab
Show threadAdam GurriNov 25, 2022
@arossp @jeffjarvis have either of you successfully joined a Scuttlebutt community? I haven't heard of the other two Jeff mentioned
Show threadAaron Ross Powell ☸️Nov 25, 2022
@adamgurri
I haven't tried. My poking around made it look like stuff built on it isn't quite ready for regular use.
@jeffjarvis
Show threadJeff JarvisNov 25, 2022
@adamgurri @arossp Planetary is the one @rabble started. It's an iOS app so far and I'm an Android rebel. I will try to dig in there next.
Show threadAdam GurriNov 25, 2022
@jeffjarvis @arossp @rabble I got it and followed a few people and servers and my home feed has never updated. I check every so often to see if anything's changed
Show threadrabbleNov 26, 2022
@adamgurri @jeffjarvis @arossp we’re currently beta testing a new community server (room) that will make discovery and syncing much better. We’re also testing a rewrite of the core p2p engine which is faster and more efficient.
Show threadAdam GurriNov 26, 2022
@rabble @jeffjarvis @arossp I look forward to it! I like the model in theory
Show threadNo Country For Old BoomersNov 26, 2022
@rabble @adamgurri @jeffjarvis @arossp Dumb newbie question here: will this platform you mentioned be on Mastodon?
Show threadAdam GurriNov 26, 2022
@Fred_Hymans @rabble @jeffjarvis @arossp It won't be, it's an alternative approach. Though @rabble can correct me if I've misunderstood that.
Show threadrabbleNov 27, 2022
@adamgurri @Fred_Hymans @jeffjarvis @arossp we use the scuttlebutt protocol which is peer to peer instead of federated. There is lots of interest in a gateway between mastodon (fediverse) and planetary (scuttlebutt).
Show threaddanbriNov 27, 2022
@rabble @adamgurri @Fred_Hymans @jeffjarvis @arossp where is the gateway/interop discussion happening?
Show threadAxel RauschmayerNov 27, 2022

@rabble [If you have time for a question]

I find Scutlebutt quite intriguing (especially how well it supports offline operation). My impression is that it works best for smaller groups. What are your experiences with scaling it up?

Show threadFábio Costa 🐇🕐🎩☕Nov 27, 2022
@rabble @adamgurri @Fred_Hymans @jeffjarvis @arossp I'm a little away from scuttlebutt, as I've lost my keys... I'll need to rejoin again
Show threadoverbyteNov 26, 2022
@adamgurri @rabble @arossp @jeffjarvis app based social media platforms, especially ones limited to a specific OS are now and always will be a terrible idea. Social media only works when everyone has access
Show threadwb x64Nov 27, 2022
@adamgurri @arossp @jeffjarvis scuttlebutt is cute and I love it, but I would only recommend it to people who find themselves away from the grid for significant amounts of time. (Yurt dwellers, seasteaders, etc.) For those of us who get upset when the wifi goes out, activitypub seems fine.
Show threadwb x64Nov 27, 2022
@adamgurri @arossp @jeffjarvis oh I forgot a third category: people who don't want to trust any third party and don't want to run their own "server" but still want to feel like they're interacting with a twitter-like service
Show threadHoward ChengNov 26, 2022
@arossp @jeffjarvis Dare I ask which one are they moving too? Not Truth Social, are they??
Show threadAaron Ross Powell ☸️Nov 26, 2022
@Howard @jeffjarvis Post and Hive
Show threadHoward ChengNov 26, 2022
@arossp @jeffjarvis Ahh I've heard stuff about them, but not really able to see much without signing up, which I don't want to do from what I've read so far lol.
Show threadMelindaNov 26, 2022
@Howard @arossp @jeffjarvis
I am on Post….people keep saying on Twitter how great it is. I don’t like it. Mastodon is much better and easier to use. IMO of course.
Show threadHoward ChengNov 26, 2022
@melindajean @arossp @jeffjarvis Of course, YMMV etc. But it's good to be able to get some kind of feedback. What is it that you prefer on here vs on Post?
Show threadMelindaNov 26, 2022
@Howard @arossp @jeffjarvis
Seems too basic.
Lots of bugs.
No notifications.
Seems less interactions for smaller accounts
In a weird way, seems cliquey.
No freestanding app.
Some of these might be solved down the road because it is still in beta.
Show threadMelindaNov 26, 2022
@Howard @arossp @jeffjarvis
Sorry, I only gave what I didn’t like about Post. You can assume I have the opposite impression of Mastodon….so far anyway 😜
Show threadHoward ChengNov 26, 2022
@melindajean @arossp @jeffjarvis Ahh I hate the "cliquey" thing. I actually find it so much nicer here than bird app - the actual conversations happening and interaction seem so much more real and human, rather than being like on bird app where a lot of interaction felt like it was just designed to tick boxes / game the algorithm.
Show threadMelindaNov 26, 2022
@jeffjarvis @Howard @arossp
Oh, one good thing on Post, they have an edit button.
Show threadHoward ChengNov 26, 2022
@melindajean @jeffjarvis @arossp But there’s an edit button on here too. If your server is running at least version 4.0.0 of Mastodon, that is.
Show threadMelindaNov 26, 2022
@Howard @jeffjarvis @arossp
Right, you are referring to the server. I’m guessing not running 4.0.0 because I don’t have an edit button. As far as I know I have no control over that.
Show threadKathy E. Gill 🇺🇦Nov 26, 2022
@melindajean @jeffjarvis @Howard @arossp
Ummm. Not that I could see on my iphone.
Show threadMelindaNov 26, 2022
@kegill @jeffjarvis @Howard @arossp
I had the Post edit button available on the web version using Safari.
Show threadHoward ChengNov 26, 2022
@melindajean @kegill @jeffjarvis @arossp Ahhh sorry, didn't realise you were on mobile. I'm using Mastodon on desktop / web version.
Show threadKathy E. Gill 🇺🇦Nov 27, 2022

@Howard @melindajean @jeffjarvis @arossp

Ah! I didn’t have edit on either Post or Mastodon on mobile. I appreciate it on here on desktop Safari!

Show threadHoward ChengNov 27, 2022
@kegill @melindajean @jeffjarvis @arossp What mobile do you have? What I have done to make it available on mobile is to load up your Mastodon server’s site on the mobile browser rather than going through the app. You should get the edit function there.
Show threadKathy E. Gill 🇺🇦Nov 26, 2022

@melindajean @Howard @arossp @jeffjarvis

I find the comparisons with Twitter to be odd. Post is not microblogging. It is micropayments. I don’t see why a writer would abandon Medium, Patron, SubStack if they are making $ there. I doubt publishers go for it but would be pleasantly surprised if they did.

It’s a Bezos project?!?

Show threadJeff JarvisNov 27, 2022
@kegill @melindajean @Howard @arossp Not Bezos.
Show threadAli Van ZeeNov 26, 2022
@Howard @arossp @jeffjarvis what have you read? I’ve been on the waitlist for 6 days now and regretting I signed up at all.
Show threadBen MillerNov 26, 2022
@arossp @jeffjarvis I go onto #Twitter regularly, it is part of my job. Every time I do, it sickens me. All gloves are off, it's self-mauling, destructive. It gives an unfiltered view how sick our society has become. What saddens me the most are the people I know, some personally, who I respect & think highly of, who either just run with it, ignore what's happening, or jump to the next best proprietary Twitter #clone, same structure, different packaging. It makes me think. Am I overreacting?
Show threadMarisa PontiNov 26, 2022
@bensen @arossp @jeffjarvis I feel the same. I also have some contacts who I consider smart and who are concerned with inclusivity, equality, bottom up participation, but then remain there. I guess a reason is they are afraid of losing their followers, their social capital. Then I am wondering if it’s me being rigid that I don’t think it is worth it to remain on a platform run by a jerk because don’t want to lose ma -few- followers.
Show threadOpenDNA⚙️Nov 26, 2022

@bensen @arossp @jeffjarvis I don't think you're over-reacting, but you probably are being manipulated by an algorithm which selects for emotional response.

My Twitter feed is now ~1% people I follow, 20% things they reacted to, 20% ads, and the rest things which provoked reactions globally (largely rage-bait, "Ow My Ball!" videos, and OnlyFans promos).

Show threadAaron Ross Powell ☸️Nov 26, 2022
@opendna @bensen @jeffjarvis I've never used Twitter's algorithmic feed, always switching to the chronological one.
Show threadKathy E. Gill 🇺🇦Nov 26, 2022

@opendna @bensen @arossp @jeffjarvis

Wow! I see almost no ads but I use lists to read (almost exclusively). I’m not there nearly as often.

I block each advertiser and say I don’t want to see the ad. You should do the same.

Show threadFloridaArtNov 26, 2022

@bensen @arossp @jeffjarvis

I don't think you are over reacting. We can't just go along with the "hellscape" on Twitter and pretend it will somehow self-correct.

While I'd like to "keep hope alive" for a re-birth of sanity, logic, and critical thinking on Twitter, the facts on the ground are not encouraging. Seems to get worse every day.

I've exported my Twitter archive and locked down my account. Just leaving it dormant, you know, just in case a miracle happens. 😂

#twitter

Show threadShawn Smith PeirceNov 26, 2022

@arossp @jeffjarvis I don’t say this to be mean, but if your biggest problem with all this is that people aren’t using the tools the way you wosh they would, you’re as clueless to what made Twitter great as Musk still is.

It’s people - & that will remain so for whatever comes next.

If people are finding their communities wherever, that’s great. Most aren’t thinking about open/closed/propritary, etc.

That said…

Show threadShawn Smith PeirceNov 26, 2022

@arossp @jeffjarvis Mastodon, like all short socials, has its own issues.

And some of the biggest issues remain people.

Even with tech that allows federation, the communities that are developing on different platforms now won’t interact in the same way as they did on pre-Elon Twitter.

Whch means none of them will be quite as diverse or successful as before…

Show threadShawn Smith PeirceNov 26, 2022

@arossp @jeffjarvis For now, given the rapid speed with which Musk is destroying the old Twitter, I’m glad that people are finding their people wherever.

That’s the most important thing - salvaging the communities & relationships. The tech sh**? That’ll work itself out, eventually. Always does.

You cut out & silence people & communities? Many times, they don’t come back.
-30-

Show threadScott, present & accounted forNov 26, 2022
@arossp @jeffjarvis Post.news should establish some sort of ownership structure so that it cannot be purchased by the latest billionaire. #PostNews
Show threadJeff YangNov 26, 2022
@jeffjarvis @scottspeaking @arossp Post feels like a dead-end branch of social media evolution to me. This conversation is more interesting and vibrant than anything I’ve seen on there already—that place feels so obsessed with civility that disagreement is seen as aggression.
Show threadMax KennerlyNov 26, 2022
@arossp @jeffjarvis Agreed. I can see paths by which Mastodon / federation / etc replaces most of Twitter. But Post seems to have fundamental limitations that preclude it from replacing more than just journalist / pundit Twitter. https://twitter.com/MaxKennerly/status/1596529438178541569
Max Kennerly on Twitter

“@joshtpm This is plucked from the middle of a good thread about Post. It's basically Medium with OpenWeb comments. That seems like an awfully shaky foundation, and one not easily fixed with incremental improvements. https://t.co/CtaOGXL5DF”

Twitter
Show threadLee FifeNov 26, 2022
@arossp @jeffjarvis they were promised that their social status would be preserved in the new platform ...
Show threadAnn LiptonNov 26, 2022
@arossp @jeffjarvis
To be fair, it has quote tweets
Show threadKyle R. ConwayNov 26, 2022

@arossp @jeffjarvis

Possibly worth checking in with @conservancy who was asking a related question the other day, but from the positive side:

"...if you moved over from Twitter recently, if there was anything precipitating the migration away that could've prompted you to move before now?"

I don't know that anything is a panacea, but truly free software (with the ability to improve, fork, etc.) seems like a prerequisite.

More insights would be helpful.

Show threadA Concerned ScientistNov 26, 2022

@arossp @jeffjarvis

It's really just because it's easier to make money there, correct? It's been pretty transparent to me to see who I followed who then went here versus who's going to Post. Some people want to get information out to the most people possible and some people only care if they make a brand.

Show threadPer FunkeNov 26, 2022
@arossp @jeffjarvis
Yes. Some not moving, some moving elsewhere. It's frustrating. I've decided to stay here in spite of the loss of the dynamic environment in Twitter, which, I'm sure, is rotting to it's core. If I ever buy an EV it will not. be. a. Tesla.