paraic

@bookstodon @linguistics A question prompted by a post I saw: what are the best #ScienceFiction #scifi books where #languages play an important part?

There’s 1984, obviously. Even more obviously, The Languages of Pao by Jack Vance. The Imperial Radch series by Ann Leckie has some interesting language features in terms of gender identity, power and mutual intelligibility.

I’m sure there are loads more - this is ‘off the top of my head’ - what others would you recommend?

Nov 26, 2022 at 11:01amWeb
Show threadMarekNov 26, 2022

@paraic @bookstodon @linguistics

There are a few Ted Chiang short stories ("Story of your life" > "Arrival" being the most obvious, but "The Truth of Fact, the Truth of Feeling" also).

China Miéville's "Embassytown"

Similarly off the top of my head. Interesting question, will be pondering this one.

Show threadNiall O'CallaghanNov 26, 2022
@wildenstern @paraic @bookstodon @linguistics Adrian Tchaikovsky's Children of Time series has some interesting takes on interspecies communication. I second the shout for Embassytown - language is actually the foundation of that one.
Show threadparaicNov 26, 2022
@linguistics @wildenstern @bookstodon @nocalla interesting. I have only read Elder Race by Tchaikovsky but that also fits the criteria! I’ve also only read The City and The City by Miéville but even that is an adjacent idea
Show threadAnatol StefanowitschNov 26, 2022
@wildenstern @paraic Yes, “Embassytown” is spectacular, not least because it takes the possibility of fundamentally incompatible minds/languages seriously! Another novel that does this is C.J. Cherryh's “Forty Thousand in Gehenna”.
Show threadparaicNov 26, 2022
@stefanowitsch @wildenstern thanks - I’m not familiar with either!
Show threadparaicNov 26, 2022
@bookstodon @linguistics @wildenstern I don’t know Ted Chiang’s work and have only read Miéville’s The City and The City - thanks!
Show threadMartin Vermeer FCDNov 26, 2022
@paraic @bookstodon @linguistics @wildenstern Story of your life is recommended.
Show threadparaicNov 26, 2022
@linguistics @wildenstern @bookstodon @martinvermeer Thanks! Is that Ted Chiang, Martin?
Show threadMartin Vermeer FCDNov 26, 2022
@paraic @linguistics @wildenstern @bookstodon Yes.
Show threadgan6nei4 @ 絮言・狂想Nov 26, 2022
@wildenstern @paraic @bookstodon @linguistics Love Ted Chiang’s worldbuilding. I love Seventy-two Letters and The Lifecycle of Software Objects.
Show threadFiona NNov 26, 2022
@paraic @bookstodon @linguistics
Project Hail Mary, by #AndyWeir.
Show threadT.S. YellalotNov 26, 2022

@paraic @bookstodon @linguistics

Great question!

The Sparrow by Mary Doria Russell comes to mind, as well as Girl in Landscape by Jonathan Lethem.

Show threadT.S. YellalotNov 26, 2022
Oh, and Native Tongue by Suzette Haden Elgin!
Show threaddagmar_finkNov 26, 2022

@tsyellalot Native Tongue ist really super interesting in terms of gender and language.

Also Melissa Scott's Shadow Man. It has names and pronouns for additional sexes.

Show threadparaicNov 26, 2022
@tsyellalot @linguistics @bookstodon I haven’t read either but I loved Gun with Occasional Music and Motherless Brooklyn
Show threadT.S. YellalotNov 26, 2022
@paraic
Oh yes, they’re both excellent – and also quite a lot about language, especially the latter!
Show threadKevin MarksNov 26, 2022
@paraic @bookstodon @linguistics Battle of the Linguist Mages by Scotto Moore comes to mind
Show threadparaicNov 26, 2022
@linguistics @bookstodon @KevinMarks I don’t know that one, Kevin. Thanks!
Show threadShouty personNov 26, 2022

@paraic @bookstodon @linguistics

It always bothered me that universal translators on TV could just handle cultural context and puns and jokes. The ST:TNG Darmok episode resonated strongly with me.

In fact, I just couldn't let it go and so my own Starship Teapot series (beginning with The Left Hand of Dog) plays with all these ideas.

Show threadJeff S. HunterNov 26, 2022
@clacksee @linguistics @paraic @bookstodon The literal translator is a cracking concept - love what you did with it!
Show threadparaicNov 26, 2022
@clacksee @linguistics @bookstodon yes I was thinking the same about the UT idea and how much sentient culture it must suppress. The Darmok episode was a nice response. I remember a Voyager episode Nemesis where the translator worked but the language was very non-standard. I gather there’s a UT fail in a Discovery episode too
Show threadPaul L. ArvidsonNov 26, 2022
@paraic @bookstodon @linguistics Ridley Walker by Russel Hoban is a genius exploration of language mutation and collapse after an apocalypse. You piece together a lot of the happenings from the shattered remains of how the characters talk.
Show threadparaicNov 26, 2022
@realarvo @linguistics @bookstodon oh yes! ‘The Ardship of Cambry’. A great one for the list
Show threadAmezmothNov 26, 2022
@paraic @bookstodon @linguistics babel-17 is maybd a bit dated but has some interesting ideas in how language could shape thought
Show threadparaicNov 26, 2022
@Amezmoth @linguistics @bookstodon who is the author, please?
Show threadAmezmothNov 26, 2022
@paraic @linguistics @bookstodon Samuel R Delany
Show threadkechpajaNov 26, 2022

@paraic @linguistics @bookstodon Becky Chambers does a good job with language, although her aliens and their phonologies are very human in many ways.

My socks will always match my hat.

Show threadparaicNov 26, 2022
@bookstodon @kechpaja @linguistics yes there are some good ideas on languages there. The Galaxy, and the Ground Within probably explores that the most, based on my experience
Show threadManuel F. HerradorNov 26, 2022
@paraic @bookstodon @linguistics There's the Expanse series, where a lot of play (even political) goes around the Belter cant. Since it's composed from real contemporaneous languages, etymology is fun to follow.
Show threadManuel F. HerradorNov 26, 2022
@paraic @bookstodon @linguistics The Jaran series by Kate Elliott, how could I forget. Lots of language play there, even hand signs, and even different interpretations of reality by different species as a function of their language.
Show threadparaicNov 26, 2022
@bookstodon @manuelfherrador @linguistics excellent - that sounds great!
Show threadManuel F. HerradorNov 26, 2022
@paraic @bookstodon @linguistics The main character, Tess, is a linguistics graduate XDD
Show threadparaicNov 26, 2022
@linguistics @manuelfherrador @bookstodon thanks - who’s the author?
Show threadManuel F. HerradorNov 26, 2022
@paraic @linguistics @bookstodon James S. A Corey (actually, a pseudonym for two co-authors)
Show threadsarantiumNov 26, 2022
@paraic @bookstodon @linguistics
Embassytown by China Mieville won the 2012 Locus award. All about language.
Show threadKamNov 26, 2022
@paraic @bookstodon @linguistics Language plays an important role in Arkady Martine’s Teixcalaan Series - specifically as it relates to imperialism and colonialism. The first book explores the relationship of the colonized with the colonizer through the lens of literature and translation, while the second is a first-contact story where language and diplomacy are key.
Show threadparaicNov 26, 2022
@kamreadsandrecs @bookstodon @linguistics thank you - it’s interesting to hear what ‘the angle’ is! Another author I don’t yet know
Show threadDodo & the BrainDec 3, 2022
@paraic @kamreadsandrecs @bookstodon @linguistics This was the book that I first thought of in response to this question. Highly recommended.
Show threadAnatol StefanowitschNov 26, 2022
@paraic A classic that has not been mentioned yet is “The Embedding” by Ian Watson, which has a radical take on linguistic relativity and universal grammar. @bookstodon @linguistics
Show threadAnatol StefanowitschNov 26, 2022
@paraic And not to forget the “Native Tongue” series by Suzette Haden Elgin (who was a linguist herself, so she knew what she was talking about when it came to the acquisition of alien languages)! @bookstodon @linguistics
Show threadpgcdNov 26, 2022
@paraic @bookstodon @linguistics Snowcrash!
Show threadparaicNov 26, 2022
@bookstodon @linguistics @pgcd fantastic suggestion!
Show threadVidar Hokstad / Galaxy BoundNov 26, 2022
@paraic @bookstodon @linguistics In Babel-17 by Samuel R. Delany, the titular language fundamentally alters those who learn it, effectively exploring a fairly extreme take on the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis.
Show threadparaicNov 26, 2022
@vidar @bookstodon @linguistics thanks, Vidar! Sounds intriguing
Show threadpgcdNov 26, 2022
@paraic @bookstodon @linguistics bonus suggestion, a short story by Sheckley "Shall we have a little talk?"
I remembered it from from my childhood but I see somebody did a whole thing about it:
https://tenser.typepad.com/tenser_said_the_tensor/2006/09/shall_we_have_a.html
Show threadparaicNov 26, 2022
@linguistics @pgcd @bookstodon mun mun!
Show threadKansasKridNov 26, 2022

@paraic @bookstodon @linguistics Not science fiction, Ponty Pool Changes Everything by Tony Burgess and its film adaptation just called Pontypool, are not standard horror either. The book was never intended to be published, if I remember correctly Burgess called it “experimental” and the ending is way out there. But it uses language in a way I had never seen before.

This one may qualify for a re-read by me, now that it jumped back in my head.

Show threadsubobscuraNov 26, 2022
@kansaskrid @paraic @bookstodon @linguistics I came here to recommend this one! Love it!
Show threadKansasKridNov 26, 2022
@subobscura @paraic @bookstodon @linguistics
#pontypool was one of a few books that altered my perception of authorship. It showed me that books can go places I never thought possible. It expanded the universe for me.
Show threadparaicNov 26, 2022
@kansaskrid @bookstodon @linguistics wow! Just read a synopsis - definitely going on my to read list
Show threadArtemisia VulgarisNov 26, 2022
@bookstodon @linguistics @paraic Has anyone mentioned Suzette Haden Elgin yet? Her Native Tongue books are all about language
Show threadparaicNov 26, 2022
@CommonMugwort @linguistics @bookstodon yes but no problem mentioning again!
Show threaddavidadgerNov 26, 2022
@paraic @bookstodon @linguistics most of the ones that come to mind have already been mentioned, but I didn't notice Peter Watts Blindsight, which has some relevant stuff. I chose Embassytown for one of my @fivebooks! https://fivebooks.com/best-books/linguistics-david-adger/
Linguistics

The best linguistics books, as recommended by David Adger, Professor of Linguistics at Queen Mary University of London and author of Language Unlimited.

Five Books
Show threadparaicNov 26, 2022
@fivebooks @linguistics @davidadger @bookstodon thanks, David!
Show threadStephen FierbaughNov 26, 2022
@paraic @bookstodon @linguistics Anathem by Neal Stephenson. You really need to read it twice. Once to learn the language and the second (& 3rd, 4th, 5th...) time for enjoyment.
Show threadsubobscuraNov 26, 2022
@sfierbaugh @paraic @bookstodon @linguistics this book was life-changing for me, especially in how I thought about the nature of reality and the role of science in society. Would have made my top ten if we weren't limited to six 😊
Show threadparaicNov 26, 2022
@bookstodon @linguistics @sfierbaugh thanks! Am a big Stephenson fan
Show threadicasticoNov 26, 2022

@sfierbaugh @paraic @bookstodon @linguistics

My favorite book by him. May need a reread

Show threadRobert FromontNov 26, 2022
@paraic @bookstodon @linguistics Stretching the definition of Science Fiction, and a short story, but Tlön, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius by JL #Borges has some pretty out there ideas about possible languages