πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦ Sean Prophet βš›Nov 20, 2022

Seeing some posts talking about fediblocking turning Mastodon into a "filter bubble." No. We absolutely do not need abusive or fascist views to have a high level of intellectual diversity. Full stop. That hate can fester somewhere else.

After 20 years of social media, the experiment has been run. Hateful people are unconvinced by rational argument, so there's no point engaging with them.

This is a rotten, disingenuous, meritless argument, from A to Z.

Fascism is to be defeated, not debated.

Show threadSludge
@sean the echo chamber argument is misunderstood, imo. An echo chamber is where you never hear anything other than your own voice. You can avoid that without having to be friends with the school bully.
Nov 20, 2022 at 5:55pmWeb
Show threadπŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦ Sean Prophet βš›Nov 20, 2022

@Sludge

Yes you can. And you can also avoid that while insisting on only viewpoints grounded in facts and valid data.

Put another way, science is not an echo chamber.

Show threadcreatinglakeNov 21, 2022
@sean @Sludge science isn't an echo chamber but groups of humans in scientific fields can create echo chambers, dismissing even facts outside of their collective worldview. It's not always so easy to determine fact from fiction. Sometimes it's very easy... I'm pretty sure that Earth is round!
Show threadSludgeNov 21, 2022
@creatinglake @sean yes, echo chambers exist and it's best to avoid them. My point is only that to do that, you don't have to hang out with flat earthers. You just need to know what they think.
Show threadnaught101Nov 21, 2022
@creatinglake @sean @Sludge you and most people, but actually it's an oblate spheroid. With bumps :P
Show threadcreatinglakeNov 21, 2022
@naught101 @sean @Sludge roughly speaking. πŸ™‚
Show threadOleg "Ole" R. πŸ‡±πŸ‡ΉπŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦Nov 21, 2022
@sean @Sludge well put. Universe doesn't care about your beliefs. And the arguments from some people have no basis other than tribalism which is just another form of blind faith
Show threadComrade Pangloss πŸ«–πŸ₯ƒNov 21, 2022

@sean @Sludge

Ah reasoned opinions.

Show threadSkanedog πŸ³οΈβ€πŸŒˆπŸ΄σ §σ ’σ ³σ £σ ΄σ ΏNov 21, 2022
@Sludge @sean exactly this, you can appreciate the worldview of others without being forced to listen to people who want you to die.
Show threadRiley S. FaelanNov 21, 2022
@Sludge @sean: @sean: The simple arithmetics here is that adding fascists to a diverse mix of people _reduces_ the diversity, despite some people's disingenuous claims otherwise.
Show threadeyajpngNov 21, 2022
@Sludge @sean Also, and I think this gets ignored far too often, echo chambers are not inherently bad. They sometimes lead to negative outcomes, and when they’re the only places a person ever visits it generally correlates with more of those negatives… But the existence of an echo chamber, in and of itself? Neither positive or negative. They can have positive effects too! Sometimes a certain purity of vision/belief is what a project needs.
Show threadSludgeNov 21, 2022
@jepyang @sean yeah, we don't really expect people to be friends with those who have diametrically opposite views. But on social media your condemned for chatting with like minded folk.
Show threadZhenbo LiNov 21, 2022

@Sludge @sean IMHO the echo chamber is referring to the algorithms only push the information you like, or the algorithm assumes you like.

However, Mastodon is returning the timeline back. Users HAVE TO find interesting accounts to follow. They are responsible for own timeline, instead of staying in the bubble, created by recommendation systems.

Show threadSludgeNov 21, 2022
@zhenboli @sean great point
Show threadTrekNov 21, 2022
@zhenboli @Sludge @sean the echo chamber can exist physically. If you only associate with like minded people irl then you're potentially in one.
Show threadSludgeNov 21, 2022
@trekman10 @zhenboli @sean that'd be called having friends?
Show threadTrekNov 21, 2022

@Sludge @zhenboli @sean my friends don't all hold the exact same opinions as each other, do yours?

And I mean even further than that this includes your co-workers, clients, neighbors, etc. People you might not consider "friends" but still have social interactions with

Show threadSludgeNov 21, 2022
@trekman10 @zhenboli @sean obviously my neighbours, colleagues, acquaintances and even family do not have the same opinions as me. I am friends with people who have the same world view as me. Are you not? The point I am making is that it is possible to hear other people's opinions without being friends with them. People should not be criticised for hanging out with like minded groups. This is not the same as not listening to the other side.
Show threadTrekNov 21, 2022
@Sludge @zhenboli @sean I think we're defining worldview differently. I would consider someone from southern france to have lilely have a different worldview than someone from Syria. I don't just mean if they're fascist or not.
Show threadSludgeNov 22, 2022
@trekman10 @zhenboli @sean by worldview I mean attitudes. I don't think it is wrong to have friends who have similar attitudes to you. It doesn't mean you can't listen to other opinions. And if you find those opinions objectionable, why *should* you be friends?
Show threadTrekNov 22, 2022
@Sludge @zhenboli @sean fair. But my friends and I get into lots of Deep conversations and we're bound to have wildly divergent perspectives and ideas about how the world works or should work and I wasn't sure if you were against having friends like that because that's what I think of when I think of worldview