Deviant Ollam

So, I definitely want to see Mastodon remain healthy and continue forward, but I wouldn't mind if someone could explain this to me a little more...

https://atomicpoet.org/objects/edff069b-bc28-4b18-ac37-a3173723c31e

... Aren't the posting and operational costs associated with the Fediverse borne by all the individual instances? What costs does the overarching org have? (Not being snarky, I'm sure they exist, I just wish I understood more)

Nov 18, 2022 at 11:00pmWeb
Show threadDeviant OllamNov 18, 2022
Ahhh... I was only thinking of the hosting costs which are going up with increasing user load, but there are of course also the overall development costs of the project. For some reason I thought it was an open source platform but in fact it is a project with paid developers and such.
Show threadRobert ThauNov 18, 2022
@deviantollam It's an open source project with paid developers, a formal governance structure, and at least one friendly fork for those whose preferences don't completely line up with central leadership.
Show threadMrs Mouse at workNov 18, 2022
@deviantollam and mastodon. social is run by the central developers.
Show threadf00f/eris/continuum/etcNov 18, 2022
@deviantollam Mastodon is an open source platform, open source platforms can have paid developers and development costs. "Open source" doesn't mean free-as-in-price or even volunteer developed, it just means that the source code is made available to all users, and users have the right to spin up their own instance and make whatever changes they want.
Show threadDouglas KilpatrickNov 18, 2022

@deviantollam As far as I can tell, the linked Patreon supports:
* The development of the open-source project

AND ALSO

* Hosting mastodon.social

I'd suggest biasing giving toward your instance first, and hit up the main patreon second.

Since I'm on that instance, I hit that one first.

Show threaddprk_ebooksNov 18, 2022
@deviantollam It's open source under AGPL
Show threadChris BrownNov 18, 2022
@deviantollam Eugene (@Gargon) runs 2 servers mastodon(dot)online and mastodon(dot)social, and he is the main coder on the Github branch. So the donations from Chris's post will go to help support the servers and Eugene's time in improving/maintaining the code/features of Mastodon.

Each instance will have it's own costs associated to it's bandwidth/space/hosting/etc. There are other Open Source projects on the Fediverse that also accept donations, some for alternative backends (Pleroma, Freindica, HubZilla, etc) and some are for alternative front ends/applications (Glitch-SOC, Pinafore, Sengi, Toot!, Soapbox, etc.)

There will be load on each of these servers as their Local and Federated timelines continue to grow. And Chris's biggest point is to make sure people are aware that there isn't any Advertisers or Data Logging/Selling going on to facilitate these costs. Many of us would say donate where you wish, but to always try to support your local instance's admin since they help your experience more immediately.
Show threadLauraNov 18, 2022
@deviantollam The answer is that you are absolutely correct. The problem is that the "creator" of mastodon hosting his own enourmous and painfully overcrowded instance mastodon.social, which of course goes against the idea of decentralization. This is what that post is talking about.
Show threadLauraNov 18, 2022
@deviantollam It's been pointed out a lot that the focus on that guy is absolutely nonsensical. Of all server admins, he is getting by far the most money – and that's not just via patreon, but also literally via state funding. And it's bullshit that people focus on him so much. Support your local instance admin instead.
Show threadLauraNov 18, 2022
@deviantollam The post feels even more absurd when you consider that it's not posted on a mastodon instance, but on a pleroma instance, so the mastodon developer and his nonprofit have very little to do with it. So: ???
Show threadLauraNov 18, 2022
@deviantollam Some instances have even muted (not showing up in the federated timeline) any posts from mastodon.social, because that instance is such a mess and so overcroweded and hard to moderate. The solution is not donating more money but closing signups so not even more people sign up for this de facto central instance. But sadly, the mastodon developer has lost focus a bit by now and is doing his own thing :/
Show threadJosh LevinNov 19, 2022

@codingcatgirl @deviantollam

This motivates me enough to change instanced but I'm unsure where I would fit in as I do so many different things (politics, foss, infosec, etc.). Any instances or resources you have to recommend?

Show threadLauraNov 19, 2022
@morpheus636 @deviantollam http://instances.social has an exhausting list of options :)
Mastodon instances

Show threadunixninja92Nov 18, 2022
@deviantollam I think most of their costs are paying developers and running the two "official" instances
Show threadEvelyn  Nov 18, 2022
@deviantollam Thank you - I had this same question
Show threadRallias  Nov 18, 2022
@deviantollam So, sure, each instance has their own infrastructure costs, but the Mastodon project itself is a development project, and with the million people joining the Fediverse, they bring with them expectations of what Mastodon is and can be, in terms of performance, mobile apps, and the canonical Mastodon instance that they run (mastodon.social).
Show threadbhtooefrNov 18, 2022

@deviantollam The org basically has the following costs that I know of:

  • Developing Mastodon itself and the official mobile apps
  • mastodon.social’s costs (both in terms of compute and labor)

And, yeah, given how much the org is getting, not counting all the corporate sponsorships it also has (…some from some real sketchy backers), a financial contribution would be much better spent on helping a smaller instance defray their expenses.

Show threadbhtooefrNov 18, 2022
@deviantollam (and by “real sketchy backers” I mean, there’s multiple essay writing services here: https://joinmastodon.org/sponsors )
Show threadSimon ZerafaNov 18, 2022

@deviantollam

Donate to your own instances running costs.

Some people seems to be confusing one specific, overcrowded and seemingly under resources instance with the entire federated service.

Clearly that's not correct.

Show threadPiero Vera 🦆Nov 18, 2022

@deviantollam This is what the Patreon lists:

> Multiple developers for the main project
> Multiple developers for official iOS/Android apps
> Multiple UX designers
> Hosting of mastodon.social
> Hosting of mastodon.online
> Hosting of joinmastodon.org and related services

While I guess you'd also be supporting development, it seems most of the donations might just go to hosting costs. I personally don't mind there being one huge instance if that facilitates user adoption, but apparently a lot of people disagree with that idea.

Show threadEvelyn  Nov 18, 2022
@deviantollam Ahhh:
Show threadGreppyNov 18, 2022
@deviantollam
$21,000 a month is not a lot of money to pay developers to work full time. Regardless of the hosting costs every app runs in to problems when scaling at this rate. Something is going to break. They prolly need more devs & stuff.
Show threadDeviant OllamNov 18, 2022
@grep_ip oh, gosh, yeah. I actually was forgetting about the fact that this is an actively maintained product with Central development. I was thinking only of hosting costs. You're absolutely right.
Show threadRedbackNov 18, 2022
@deviantollam I think its just about the costs for the instances they are running.