petnoodleNov 14, 2022
Sarah
I know some people making the #TwitterMigration may be missing the quote tweet option, but @Gargron explained the reasoning behind not having it quite well. I was just thinking about this because I saw someone on the other site tweet a very bad take and he got QTed, which led to some piling on. If he hadn’t been QTed, many wouldn’t have seen it. Here I find it a bit easier to just pass that stuff by or not see it at all. Definitely a less reflexive anger-inducing experience
Nov 13, 2022 at 6:50amWeb
Show threadSarahNov 13, 2022
Some people are rightfully pointing out that I in a way kind of of QTed @Gargron by sharing a screenshot of one of his posts. I tried to find it again and couldn’t, otherwise I would have boosted it. QTing can be good, like here, sharing something and adding context and support. It can also lead to piling on bad actors finding you easier. I shared this before, but on my first day here I shared how I was happy to be here and hoped that it would be a safer place for me…
Show threadSarahNov 13, 2022
…As a result of one of my hashtags, three bigots found me: one called me an n-word loving k*ke (though they spelled the full words), another told me “work will set you free” which are the words above the entrance to Auschwitz, and another sent me a gif of Hitler. I blocked and reported to @stux. Abuse can happen anywhere, even here so every newbie should be aware. But I do believe that not having a QT feature probably helped protect me from it getting too out of control.
Show threadSarahNov 13, 2022
The QT feature obviously isn’t all bad! And who knows, maybe in the future @Gargron may change his mind about it. But at least for right now, it is a welcome reprieve.
Show threadPixelJonesNov 15, 2022
@SarahOestreich
I respect your perspective (I know I am far less subject to harassment, so have no idea what that's really like). Still, what about QTing leads more grief to your door than someone just copying your handle & talking smack about you? (Not trying to debate you in any way, just don't understand the difference except a tiny speed bump for trolls to hop over.)
Show threadSarahNov 15, 2022
@PixelJones I think you’re right that there are definitely advantages to the function, but—and this is anecdotal—I see so much nastiness on Twitter that I might not otherwise see if not for QT. And as you note, there will always be workarounds when it comes to harassment. But any small obstacle might help hinder it a bit. Look, as a Mastodon newbie, right now I think it is a good idea, but I may eventually change my mind. But at least right now I am thankful for it.
Show threadJohn G FitzgeraldNov 13, 2022
@SarahOestreich @stux Don't let the bigots get you down. Stay strong among friends 😀
Show threadMike Stevens Nov 13, 2022
@SarahOestreich @Gargron excellent quote toot here. 👌
Show threadSarahNov 13, 2022
@mikestevens @Gargron haha I guess it is kind of a workaround of a QT so obviously even this system can be abused without the official QT option. I just had taken a screenshot when I saw it before and couldn’t find it again to RT it. But point definitely taken.
Show threadMike Stevens Nov 13, 2022

@SarahOestreich @Gargron heh, I hear you. Mostly just poking fun. I've been moaning at my poor followers all week about QTs, as I generally feel their value outweighs the harm and the risk (especially if Mastodon's userbase remains an overall better calibre of maturity and compassion), but I'm not oblivious to the difference between my experience as a middle class white guy versus that of minorities and marginalised groups.

I get that it's easy for me to want to quote toot, say, somebody trying to work out how to allow uploads over cellular data on their phone and add something like "pretty sure you just do this and then this, but maybe not. Any of my fellow gadget nerds have any tips?", and that's a fairly benign use case and obviously not what mastodon is worried about. I understand how they can and do get used by bad actors or the naively ignorant.

But, at the same time, if I really want to do this, I can screengrab like you did and @mention the OP, or I can reply with what I said above and then retoot my reply, still drawing attention to the OP's toot, if not exposing the original toot in the process. Both are a workaround I'll probably use on those harmless occasions — but it also shows that not offering a QT function is a very low barrier to anybody who wants to QT, for good or bad.

Anyway, it's not like it's up for a vote. 'tis but my opinion and not the end of the world regardless!

Show threadSarahNov 13, 2022
@mikestevens @Gargron I think you make some good points about existing workarounds that could be used in both benign and malicious ways. I am also still figuring it out. But I will note that I with the situation I talk about in the attached post (if you click the link you can see it—another kind of QT I guess), I think it could have gotten worse with a QT option, though I can’t say for sure. https://mstdn.social/@SarahOestreich/109327363969208379
Sarah (@[email protected])

Okay Mastodon is very nice and people are rightfully relieved that it seems like a friendlier place, but some of you who made the #TwitterMigration need to take off those rose-colored glasses just a bit. The decentralization does seem to make it a bit safer, but I was also called a k*ke on my first day here and also told “work will set you free,” which was above the entrance to Auschwitz. It didn’t turn me off from Mastodon but people shouldn’t think abuse can’t happen here

Mastodon 🐘
Show threadMike Stevens Nov 13, 2022
@SarahOestreich @Gargron agreed, could've gone worse. Sorry you had to experience that! Twats everywhere. I'm glad we at least have active mods, stricter rules on most instances, and some cool instance-wide banning/blocking options for those that don't. Not perfect of course, but so far it all seems to make things nicer here!
Show threadKarano techieNov 13, 2022
@SarahOestreich @Gargron
please give link to original post , we might boost it as well.
Show threadSarahNov 13, 2022
@Gargron @karano I was looking for it but couldn’t seem to find it again! Otherwise I would have just boosted that one. A product of the different kind of search function here, I think.
Show threadMattNov 13, 2022

@SarahOestreich @Gargron

While I agree that QTing can be harmful and don't disagree with Mastodon's policy, I'd like to offer the idea that much of tweeting/tooting/actvism/opining is performative by nature.

Show threadSarahNov 13, 2022
@MattInCincy513 @Gargron totally fair and in a lot of ways I think you’re right. I do like the idea of experimenting with different ways to encourage more dialogue, less performance. But—and I don’t mean to sound too existential—aren’t we almost always performing in some way even when not online? I guess there are degrees and no QT is trying to mitigate the more harmful kind, if any of that makes sense. I don’t know, it’s late ha
Show threadMattNov 13, 2022

@SarahOestreich @Gargron

That is valid!
We are human and there is always some form of adjusting our message for the given context.

I was merely commenting on @gargron's logic, and regardless, the absence of QT will likely help. I do worry about this app potentially going too conservative about content moderation.

Mastodon now has a window to scale, if they want to. 1m have joined since October 27th, myself included. A key is to provide something uncomplicated and fair for everyone.

Show threadChozari 賈 (she/her)Nov 13, 2022
@SarahOestreich @Gargron Agreed. Subtweets are immature enough without the harm that hostile quote-tweeting can do. I liked to amplify & support other people by using it in a friendly way, but I’m happy to forego that in order to see the yucky ones go away. I HAVE seen a fair bit of subtooting going on since joining Mastodon, though, I must say. More than I tended to see it in my lovely little birdsite circle.
Show threadSarahNov 13, 2022
@chozari yeah there are always pros and cons with any feature (or lack thereof), but at least right now I’m okay with no QTing
Show threadKristoffer LawsonNov 13, 2022
@SarahOestreich @Gargron isn’t a bit ironic that you pass this on essentially via a quote, just an image one. It actually shows why quoting is useful: to be able to add why you are sharing something. Or maybe to clarify a point (like I might want to share something controversial yet topical, and point out I don’t agree)
Show threadSarahNov 13, 2022
@Setok I addressed this in another comment below but I guess I can repeat myself. I think you make a fair point (I couldn’t find the original and would have boosted it if I could find it again) and do think that sharing something and adding context is useful, but there is also a really harmful side to QTing. My first day here I was called slurs and I do believe it would have gotten worse with a QT option https://mstdn.social/@SarahOestreich/109327363969208379
Sarah (@[email protected])

Okay Mastodon is very nice and people are rightfully relieved that it seems like a friendlier place, but some of you who made the #TwitterMigration need to take off those rose-colored glasses just a bit. The decentralization does seem to make it a bit safer, but I was also called a k*ke on my first day here and also told “work will set you free,” which was above the entrance to Auschwitz. It didn’t turn me off from Mastodon but people shouldn’t think abuse can’t happen here

Mastodon 🐘
Show threadKristoffer LawsonNov 13, 2022
@SarahOestreich that of course sucks. Abuse always raises its head on online communities. But it’s handing it to them if useful features get removed because of it. Are there studies showing quoting increases abuse? I mean it can happen even without a quoting feature, by quoting a screen cap. You’re just less aware of it.
Show threadSarahNov 13, 2022
@Setok I agree there will always be workarounds but they do take a tad more effort I guess. I do think that QTing allows some of the worst opinions to be amplified (even if the point is to dunk on them it still spreads them) and encourages us to also indulge some of our worst impulses, and if this helps mitigate that even a little, I’m for it. But I’m still relatively new here so I may change my mind! We shall see.
Show threadKristoffer LawsonNov 13, 2022
@SarahOestreich yeah, I’ve been missing the feature already. Just helps sometimes to give context to something I’m boosting. Never even occurred to me to use it for abuse…
Show threadSarahNov 13, 2022
@Setok I totally understand and do miss it a bit as well bc what if I see a post and want to add my opinion, start a discussion about it with my followers? Here I can’t do that. But I see so much dunking via QT which can be useful in repudiating bad/harmful ideas, but also puts some bad stuff in one’s feed that one might otherwise not see. And it’s good you hadn’t thought of it! Unfortunately, it happens quite a bit. Time will tell if this adds to or hampers the experience
Show threadNixmoriNov 13, 2022
@SarahOestreich @Gargron I like this. QTs often seem very passive aggressive. I’ve only been on here a day and I’ve noticed a marked difference in toxicity between here and Twitter. I’m sure it exists here too, but the culture seems far more supportive.
Show threadPixelJonesNov 15, 2022
@SarahOestreich @Gargron
OK, but another word for "performative" is, you know, "social." For every Quote Tweet "pile on" I have seen a hundred good Tweets amplified & given positive exposure by being QT'd. Besides, if I reply to you & you have no audience, no one will see our civil conversation. Sorry, but IMO this design choice based on fear actually muzzles a lot of positive interaction.
(Note how Sarah had to "fake QT" your post just to talk about. See the problem?)
Show threadSarahNov 15, 2022
@PixelJones i understand your POV and if you look at the comments under my post I address that so you can refer there. I hate to keep repeating myself but there are positives and negatives that come with QTing. Adding context and spurring conversation with one’s followers is good. But it can also help bad actors find people and I believe the attacks I record here probably would have been worse with that function. It is a trade-off
Show threadJoakim ZieglerNov 15, 2022

@SarahOestreich @Gargron As many people have pointed out, QTing was central to organizing on Twitter. It drove campaigns like #metoo and #cripthevote. Being able to not just boost something, but add your voice to it, is powerful, and it'll be hard to organize similarly on Mastodon.

Also, I think this really seems like a technical solution to a social problem, which usually doesn't work. The solution is moderation, everything else people will just work around.

Show threadSarahNov 16, 2022
@JoakZieg that’s an interesting point. Perhaps there could be issues with organizing movements, but one is able to follow hashtags here, repost and respond to others’ posts. I guess we’ll see. But I do think a quoting option encourages dunking too. I find myself more inclined to do so, for better—like showing why someone is terribly wrong and talking to my followers about it—and possibly worse—spreading the harmful ideas even further. I’m still relatively new so need time, could change my mind!
Show threadCassandrichNov 15, 2022
@SarahOestreich @Gargron I explicitly want people to be able to talk about, and cite, something I've done without talking to me. I don't want to be included in every conversation where that happens unless I opt in to it.