Admin@info_activism @freakazoid @strypey @wakest @wakest @thegibson
Looking for some signal boost for this fedvers expansion project http://hamishcampbell.com/index.php/2020/03/11/opening-up-openweb-search
StrypeySemApps - Assemblée Virtuelle
In a few words SemApps is a software toolkit for easy deployment and configuration of semantic information systems. It allows to produce and share highly structured data, understandable by humans and machines. Built on RDF, OWL, SPARQL, LDP, ActivityPub and SOLID standards, SemApps is easily interoperable with Linked Open Data and with platforms that respect the Semantic Web
@strypey intresting its a similar base idea but 100x more complex and upside down. In that its a technological project creating a social project. Were the #OMN is a #KISS social project creating a technological project.
If this #geekproblem project happans it should talk to a #4opens network to build a wider more ecological #openweb not a bad outcome :)
@witchescauldron what do you mean 'if it happens'? They have published code under free licenses. It's happening!
@strypey am not judging this project.
Some underlying thought: 95% of open source projects are obviously pointless. 4% of open source projects fail due to complexerty and bad UI. That leaves 1% that are potentially usefull.
The #OMN is about looking for the 1% and rolling out public versions #4opens
At the moment this area is largely #activertypub codebases.
searx is a way of adding general web search access to this wider network.
@xj9 @strypey the project i like to point to as an example. The indymedia project an early alt-media network that spread the use of open source software and #4opens organizing around the world at the turn of the century. In the UK the was a #geekproblem vs #openweb fight that became nasty over what we would now understand as "activertypub" the fedivers vs more centralized silo approach. In the UK this stress point was fought as a proxy war over #RSS
@xj9 @strypey the #openweb aggregation side were sold a dud by the #fashernistas being swayed by the #geekproblem It was obvious that the project had to change and move away from central servers to a more aggregation model. BUT the movement was torpedoed by an obviously pointless opensource project instead of implementing a existing standerds based RSS they created there BETTER, BRIGHTER flavor which was of coures incomparable with everyone else.
@xj9 @strypey this is an example of a "better" but obviously pointless open source project and also destructive behaver. The #indymedia project in the UK was ripped apart internally from this same devide in the end. A bad "open source" outcome. You can find similar behaver today in the fedvers if you look.
@witchescauldron
> #geekproblem vs #openweb
I still have no idea what you mean by either of these hashtags. It sounds like UK #Indymedia had a difference of opinion between geeks that favour decentalization and aggregation, and geeks that favour centralization and moderation. Why is only one of these the "geek problem"?
@strypey @xj9 its a intresting thing to look at. Actually you can see 3 active sides in the uk #indymedia mess and important to see the outcome that they ALL LOST in the end.
1) #encryptionists (being pushed by the #geekproblem)
2) #fashernistas (being influenced by the #geekoroblem)
3) #openweb being sidelined by the rest
clacke: exhausted pixie dream boy 🇸🇪🇭🇰💙💛@clacke @xj9 @strypey the is a page of Jargon here https://unite.openworlds.info/Open-Media-Network/Open-Media-Network/wiki/Jargon or just fallow the hashtags back to pickup a flow #neticate if rearly intrested the is a backstory here http://hamishcampbell.com agen use the hashtags #DIY #KISS
@witchescauldron I can't understand the geekproblem entry on that page, but it links to shkspr.mobi/blog/2020/01/the-c… which talks about how gatekeeping geeks lost the mainstream users to alternatives on the closed web that offered better usability.
Is that the definition of the #geekproblem?
@xj9 @strypey
Is that the definition of the #geekproblem?
@xj9 @strypey
The commons we've enclosed
I, unironically, love Reddit. But it's just USENET with a better UI, and a few moderation improvements. Most days I use DropBox. But it's just FTP, but a bit easier to use and automate. I waste a lot of time on Slack. When I explain it to old-school nerds, I say it's IRC - but developed by someone who gives a damn about user experience. Most people in the world don't have access to WWW. Instead, they use Facebook which gives them a much simpler way to post photos and share their thoughts. It …
"A large part of this is our fault. And, by us, I mean gatekeeping nerds. We developed tools which were unforgiving. We had no interest in the "soft" skills of empathy. We were too socially-awkward to speak to real users. We were insular and we liked it! Worse than that - we revelled in it."
I think 'gatekeeping nerds' is a naive account of the problem, as it applies to network tech in general, and @Indymedia as an example. It ignores the much more powerful social forces at play and severely overestimates the amount of power geeks had to influence the outcome.
@witchescauldron @clacke
@witchescauldron @clacke
The primary reasons #Indymedia died, as a broad-based media network, were IMHO:
a) it depended utterly on coding and sysadmin skills that, even then, were attracting huge salaries
b) the constitutional agreements of the network effectively forbid paying those people
c) it fell into the same orgy of attack politics we've seen on the fediverse, making it socially impossible for all but the most flawlessly PC radical left geeks to stay involved
@Indymedia @witchescauldron @clacke
a) it depended utterly on coding and sysadmin skills that, even then, were attracting huge salaries
b) the constitutional agreements of the network effectively forbid paying those people
c) it fell into the same orgy of attack politics we've seen on the fediverse, making it socially impossible for all but the most flawlessly PC radical left geeks to stay involved
@Indymedia @witchescauldron @clacke
Given those 3 facts, and the massive amount of #VentureCapital flowing into startups, which (in theory) allowed geeks to develop software useful to independent media efforts while getting *well* paid, it was inevitable that @Indymedia would bleed tech support volunteers, and fail to recruit many new ones (if any). This gradually but inevitably shifts decision-making power over whatsoftware gets developed, and how it gets deployed, from activist networks to capitalists.
@witchescauldron @clacke
@witchescauldron @clacke
What @Indymedia could have done, once these problems started to manifest, was negotiate some modifications to it's constitutional agreements. Changes allowing worker-owned cooperatives to be full members of the network, as well as #IMC collectives. This would have created a way to fund both tech infrastructure and dev, under activist coordination, while allowing geek activists to work in their own social spaces, and get paid. This is the model I think is worth pursuing.
@witchescauldron @clacke
@witchescauldron @clacke
@strypey @Indymedia @clacke this aproch was tried by champagne IMC in the USA it did a lot of damage and no good. The is a space for non commercial software development. Its fine to have different points of view and the is value in a more #NGO aproch but #indymedia is clearly not the project for this aproch. Please respect diversaty of stratergys.
@witchescauldron
> this aproch was tried by champagne IMC
That's not possible. You can't enact a network-scale tactic in a single local collective. You may be remembering the UC IMC tactic of registering for NGO status and accepting grants from US Foundations. Which is a totally different thing from the model described in the posts you're replying to.
@witchescauldron all I'm saying is that the #PlatformCooperative movement is growing sustainably and will continue to do so. A refusal to engage with it is self-marginalizing.
@Indymedia @clacke
@Indymedia @clacke
@strypey @Indymedia @clacke what do you wont to build as a platform coop? Am up for helping with media projects :)
After the #OMN is up and running and moves into a maintenance mode a coop might be the right model for holding the servers, standerds, domains and documents? Lets see if it grows :)
@strypey @Indymedia @clacke its fine to have different aproches and fine to have different world views. Its healthy.
What is not fine is to use your world view as a #Block on other world views in the guises of "helping"
At the base of actavism is diversaty of stratagys, please respect this.
The is a role for commercial.
The is a role for not for profit.
The is a role for voluntary.
The is not a role for proxy fights leading to trolling.
@strypey @Indymedia @clacke pushing a volentery project into being a not for profit (coop) is not a diversaty of stratergys nor was it one when people tried the same 10 years ago. Indymedia is at its foundation a voluntary project. Its fine to build not for profit (coop) media projects, have seen hundreds of then grow wither and die over the last 10 years. A few are still growing in small ways. Please don't become a troll on this subject :)
@strypey @Indymedia @clacke rather than pushing something that is compleatly incompatible at the #indymedia project. And risk being seen as a troll. Build a coop media project that talks #activertypub and join the wider, non dogmatic, open media network #OMN
Its simple and open to do and fits the coop model perfectly. We need good #openweb coop media as well as spiky grassroots media as they complement each other.
@strypey @Indymedia @clacke this is a symptom of the #deathcult the indymedia was setup to rebel and create non commercial spaces - the was a lot of this in the turn of the century. The needs to be a lot of that today in the era of #XR
@strypey @Indymedia @clacke this is pritty much how i see the #OMN project working. But clearly not how the #indymedia network can work.
As long as projects are #4open the is no reason not to have a happy diversity of stratagys in a wider network. The problem is when each of these go in different incombatable ways and create parrel networks, a all to common problem. The #OMN approach is designed to mediate this problem.
This is a part of the story, what i tell is a part of the story.
B) this is a good thing.
C) the mystical #geekproblem i keep talking about with the hundreads of examples over the last 10 years. The tech and process both ossifyed, it could not move or bend thus could not try and solve these issues. this killed it... and meany people were holding bloody daggers in hands that they did not see.