The Last of her NameThis place is dead. 😐
Amit Ramesan 🇮🇳Why do you say that? Because it's an echo chamber?
Vivek@AmitRamesan Do YOU think this is an echo chamber? Polite arguments do not indicate echo chambers. @Lawandemotions
Well, you don't see the RW folks here yet, do you?
@AmitRamesan @Lawandemotions for me the discussions are not about RW vs LW or this v/s that. We all have differences as individuals. The idea is to arrive at a consensus. There are some very valid points one the right side as there are on the left. No single idea is THE IDEA.
Agreed. The question is : "what next"? Is it the next discussion? There is no end to the topics there.
Or do we want something concrete to come out of our (political) discussions?
For example, I've been trying to get more people on board for #2024Challenge ; can you help get more people on board ?
There are some core INC supporters here, like @rkhuria @GeetV .
Why don't all of you get together to start funding INC with a small amount?
Or some other initiative?
To be clear, I am fine with the RW folks not being here; it helps give space for sane & polite arguments.
That said, I don't think we should restrict this space to mere arguments ; we should think of building movements.
Is that happening?
@AmitRamesan Too early for that. I say that because there have been discussions but amongst few on a scattered basis. We need larger participation in discussions for a longer period. Lasting solutions need patience. @NSure @ranjona @Lawandemotions
NSure ✔@VivekT @AmitRamesan @Lawandemotions
True! Else, it will be like modi's Demo - done on a whim with zero planning, followed by intial chest thumping and later, total silence, when it left a large hole for the economy to copiously leak out through!!
Shinjini | Modern Gypsy@VivekT I agree. And also, let’s figure out how we can start a larger participation. This is an excellent space to discuss and organise.
@AmitRamesan @NSure @Lawandemotions
@AmitRamesan @NSure @Lawandemotions
@NSure @shinjini @AmitRamesan @Lawandemotions
I suggest the first aim of this platform would be Anti-Fascist.
I know it gives a negative connotation but that is what is common between us right now.
I suggest the first aim of this platform would be Anti-Fascist.
I know it gives a negative connotation but that is what is common between us right now.
@VivekT Yes, I agree. I think we also need to find a way to counter RW propoganda. The things we talk about/value, like constitutional rights, secularism, etc are too cerebral. There needs to be an emotional connect, I think. And also a way to tackle RW. When they come up with Kashmiri Pandits we can’t just tell them not to do whataboutery. We need to dictate the narrative, counter it in ways that will make people (not trolls) stop and think. No?
@NSure @AmitRamesan @Lawandemotions
@NSure @AmitRamesan @Lawandemotions
@shinjini Absolutely! There is no point in getting into slanging matches. That is a trap. But like you say, we need to find the emotional connect too.
@NSure @AmitRamesan @Lawandemotions
@NSure @AmitRamesan @Lawandemotions
@VivekT Yes. The RW connect is Hindu khatre mein hai. And Bharat mata is being protected from Pakistan and “Islamists” 🙄
What will counter that?
@shinjini The Hindu khatrein mein hai phrase itself false because @NSure the "hindu"
here means a very small percentage of privileged upper castes. The majority of hindus are the so called lower caste who are always in khatra whether we were ruled by Rajahs or Sultans or the British. Hmm is that cerebral? @AmitRamesan @Lawandemotions
here means a very small percentage of privileged upper castes. The majority of hindus are the so called lower caste who are always in khatra whether we were ruled by Rajahs or Sultans or the British. Hmm is that cerebral? @AmitRamesan @Lawandemotions
@VivekT for lower Hindu castes, they see Muslims also as the khatra I think. They buy that as the argument.
@shinjini Yes they do. That's something that needs careful attention. How the fate of the have nots is connected irrespective of religion.
Their oppressors also are the same group irrespective of religion.
@NSure @AmitRamesan @Lawandemotions
Their oppressors also are the same group irrespective of religion.
@NSure @AmitRamesan @Lawandemotions
Papa Shark 
@wabbster Hi nice to know that. You can share your thoughts as well as sharing our ideas with your friends on here. What we need is like minded people in good numbers. @shinjini @AmitRamesan @NSure @Lawandemotions
@Vishsai
You can tell us your experiences/views too
@wabbster @shinjini @AmitRamesan @NSure @Lawandemotions
You can tell us your experiences/views too
@wabbster @shinjini @AmitRamesan @NSure @Lawandemotions
Sai Vishal@VivekT
The current government is an Image Branding team. That is it's current strength. They are the hope of the people, while any problems were caused due to opposition or history. And if it still doesn't work distract people with Pakistan, Mandir, NCR or JNU protest.
Think this is their biggest weakness also which needs to be to constantly targeted.
@VivekT We currently have multiple protest happening across India fighting the same government but it feels like we are fighting different things.
The plan to change this to keep the focus on the BJP government
Eg for the JNU protest
#ElitistBJP is against the poor getting education.
#Antieducationbjp don't want kids to learn.
NRC
#MinorityhatingBJP wants to put all the minorities behind bars.
#ElitistBJP hates poor.
@wabbster @shinjini @AmitRamesan @NSure @Lawandemotions
@Vishsai I get your point
. Right now the toot-tweet wars are being conducted on a hit and run basis. There are no concerted efforts on a broad level. Right now each interest group is carrying out its own strategy separately
@wabbster @shinjini @AmitRamesan @NSure @Lawandemotions
. Right now the toot-tweet wars are being conducted on a hit and run basis. There are no concerted efforts on a broad level. Right now each interest group is carrying out its own strategy separately
@wabbster @shinjini @AmitRamesan @NSure @Lawandemotions
@VivekT Yes, that’s true. There are a lot of anti-government protests, even among adivasi groups, in their own way.
Ultimately though, a lot of people come down to saying if not BJP, who else? They’re frustrated with Congress too.
Part of the problem is also there. 😤
@shinjini
IF not BJP take the best one for your specific area. That should be the strategy now. I know this has inherent problems but I am also confident a strong opposite pole will emerge.
@Vishsai @wabbster @AmitRamesan @NSure @Lawandemotions
IF not BJP take the best one for your specific area. That should be the strategy now. I know this has inherent problems but I am also confident a strong opposite pole will emerge.
@Vishsai @wabbster @AmitRamesan @NSure @Lawandemotions
@VivekT As long as the problem is the Bjp government keep focus on it. The more we divide the cause the more the energy we will lose fighting it.
Any issues can be spun back to the Bjp (things learnt from them)
Only a focused narrative will change things in my opinion.
Though would gladly hear Eg of local targeting and how it will help the narrative.
@shinjini @wabbster @AmitRamesan @NSure @Lawandemotions
@shinjini
Congress will come up. But we can now act against only the #CorruptBJP. The Congress can't help you. You want help target the government in power.
Till now they control the narrative using media and their troll army. And we have struggled in their battle ground. Unless we change that there won't be any change in our situation.
@Vishsai yes I agree. They are driving the narrative and creating all the distractions. Doesn’t help our cause one bit.
@VivekT @wabbster @AmitRamesan @NSure @Lawandemotions
@VivekT @wabbster @AmitRamesan @NSure @Lawandemotions
@shinjiniThat is a classic counter move which almost everyone falls for. I start a discussion the opponent instead of answering says 'what about that" and I try to answer his what aboutery. Things get in this unending loop and finally I forget what my original point was.
We have to stay focused on the original thought or fact that started the discussion
@Vishsai @wabbster @AmitRamesan @NSure @Lawandemotions
We have to stay focused on the original thought or fact that started the discussion
@Vishsai @wabbster @AmitRamesan @NSure @Lawandemotions
@VivekT @Vishsai @wabbster @AmitRamesan @Lawandemotions
This is the FAVOURITE method of the khaki shorts!
Now, I make it a point to remember the original point and ask 'What about it? Continue on xyz' at whataboutery. Not easy, but hoping it gets to be second nature, with more 'outings' amongst saffron scoundrels!
When someone say what about abc or why don't you talk about abc, I just say "if you feel strongly about it, then please go ahead. I'm more interested in what I'm talking about."
@wabbster @VivekT @Vishsai @AmitRamesan @Lawandemotions
That's a simple & effective strategy too, I'm sure!!
@NSure On most occasions, yes.
@wabbster Can't we change the narrative back to the BJP.
#AntiIndiaBJP give justice and free Kashmiris.
What about Kashmiri Pandits?
#AntiIndiaBJP give justice to Kashmiri Pandits.
We will raise this slogan until every Kashmiri Pandit has been relocated.
Come on you also say.
#AntiIndiaBJP give justice Kashmiri Pandits.
#LawlessBJP give justice for ABC?
What about XYZ?
#LawlessBJP give justice for XYZ?
#LawlessBJP give justice for ABC?
Don't even try to spend energy explaining the difference. As long as you feel it's an injustice also attach it to the BJP.
#CorruptBJP stop corruption via electoral bonds.
Congress corruption?
#CorruptBjp arrest the Congress?
#CorruptBjp stop corruption via electoral
bonds.
@wabbster For me an not a person who can react immediately coming up with such statement. It takes me time. So not necessarily would I react immediately but to think how to spin it back to the BJP?
Even if they arrest Rahul Gandhi don't stop the slogan till he is convicted which is usually 3 years.
If you are a congress supporter just say
#CorruptBjp target innocents?
No matter what way they run the focus should be brought back to them.
@NSure That is the best way to do it. Keep our focus. That is what most people do in Corporate meetings but i do not know why they can't follow the same strategy in sociopolitical discussions. Maybe the issues are too close to the heart? @Vishsai @wabbster @AmitRamesan @Lawandemotions
@VivekT @Vishsai @wabbster @AmitRamesan @Lawandemotions
Indeed yes, emotional issues stoke the emotions.
I feel there are more differences too, but need to think some more, to pen them down...
@NSure
Most of the time our ego gets in the way. I will share a personal experience about that.
My daughter and I were driving down from Pune to Nagpur.
I asked her "how much did you pay for that bottle of Jagermeister for"
"dad your pronunciation is wrong"
Well that set us on to a long discussion about language policing, French pronunciation. blah!Long sullen silence. After reaching home i said " I still don't know the cost"
Funny eh?
@ranjona @Vishsai @wabbster @AmitRamesan @Lawandemotions
Most of the time our ego gets in the way. I will share a personal experience about that.
My daughter and I were driving down from Pune to Nagpur.
I asked her "how much did you pay for that bottle of Jagermeister for"
"dad your pronunciation is wrong"
Well that set us on to a long discussion about language policing, French pronunciation. blah!Long sullen silence. After reaching home i said " I still don't know the cost"
Funny eh?
@ranjona @Vishsai @wabbster @AmitRamesan @Lawandemotions
Haha. Perfect example of missing the woods for the trees. 🤪
Narmada Bachao
#ElitistBJP wants the poor to be drowned.
#RichBJP doesn't care about the suffering of the poor.
Student suicide
#Antieducationbjp wants to kill poor students by denying others justice.
#MinorityhatingBJP doesn't want minorities to have education.
#AntiDalitBJP doesn't want Dalits to get good education.
No matter what the issue keep the focus on BJP
@Vishsai Hmm....that may work too. BJP also went hammer and tongs after Congress & Rahul Gandhi. It was a very structured approach, mainly centred on Congress corruption, suit boot ki Sarkar, and Pappu.
When they divert to Pakistan due to a terrorist strike.
#WeakBJP compromise national security.
#WeakBJP allowed terrorist to kill people.
Anti national
#AntidemocracyBJP doesn't want poor people protesting for their rights.
Anybody calls you antinational call them Anti democracy.
The same for Urban Naxal.
Unless we reach a level to keep the entire focus on BJP and not Modi.
@VivekT Keep the focus on the economy. Change the narrative of what it means.
#AntidemocracyBJP doesn't want Urban naxal helping the poor.
#ElitistBJP wants to target Urban Naxal who raises their voice for the poor.
Never lose focus. The target is the BJP government. Not their Minister, not the media, not Hindutva. These are all terms to divide our energy in fighting them.
People think that the brand is Modi but he and Amit Shah are just head of a company called BJP (includes RSS, VHP and all other Hindutvawaadi organization)
Destroy the image of the company and the heads will fall.
This is my current thought process. Would love to listen to all your thoughts and ideas into this.
@Vishsai That is a point...though I don’t see people budging from their viewpoints - at least on birdsite.
There was some scumbag RW guy who wanted the government to use tanks against the “anti nationals” - used the Tiananmen Square photo to boot.
When people called him out, he said no, I didn’t say JNU students, I said the anti nationals and urban naxals.
I wanted to cry! Who are urban naxals?! Anyone not toeing govt line!