@wgahnagl @sir The FLOSS community isn't hostile towards minorities, but it's very much focused on merit. If you yell loudly and often, but don't really bring any code to the table, people are more dismissive of your calls for action. Don't forget that most FLOSS software is also made for gratis by other people. Demanding they change the things they worked for in their spare time because you feel like it's something you deserve isn't "empathy for marginalized groups". That's just harassment.

As for the Glimpse fork of GIMP it's important to note that, in reality, the word "gimp" isn't offensive to the vast majority of the world. To demand a change that's relatively costly to most users, and to do so using harassment tactics[1], seems like a very strange thing to me if you're arguing for compassion and empathy.

[1]: I'm not saying you use harassment tactics, but the group demanding the rename on GitLab was.

@tyil but right, look at the first part of your argument. You mention minorities, and bring merit as almost an argument against them, by putting them at odds with each other. I know you didn't mean anything by it, but it's these very very small actions that build up to contribute to a hostile environment.
When you hear arguments about minorities in FLOSS constantly at odds with "merit", eventually you believe that the community doesn't aknowledge your skill, which is hostile. +

@tyil and specifically in the case of "gimp" being nonoffensive to most of the world, why do you value "most of the world" more than you value the few? Does it make a difference how many people are hurt when you know that people are hurting?
I think it really is an issue of empathy, and seeing the people on the other side of the argument as nothing more than people the other side of the argument. +

@wgahnagl @tyil
It's very hard to find a name for a project that wouldn't be offensive at least somewhere in the world.

@balsoft @tyil I think you're seeing these projects as 100% eternal but names can and do change pretty frequently lmao
Even in a post apocalyptic world where every word has become offensive, people can still make up words and rename projects.
I think your argument stems from a fear of being inclusive to everyone all the time which is frustrating when you don't understand the perspective of people who work towards inclusiveness.

@wgahnagl @balsoft There's nothing to understand about people who make up problems by ignoring context all the time. The "fear" of being inclusive to everyone would only be that thus far in history, all this "progressive" bullshit has only led to more "progressive" bullshit. No issues have been solved as of yet. History shows these people to be dishonest about everything. You shouldn't cater to such people all the time, if at all, if your intent is to make the world a friendlier place.

@tyil how would you make the world a friendlier place then?

@wgahnagl @tyil To make the world a friendlier place we need to learn to not take offence that was not intended. Learn to forgive. Learn to focus attention on real problems (like bugs in the code or aggressive nationalist groups) instead of fighting the shadow of our psychological problems.

@balsoft @tyil all of these are very fair points! But I do think that unintended hurt still hurts! Even if offense wasn't intentional, it still has an impact on the person that it impacted, and the community that reinforces that hurting someone unintentionally is OK.
That's how spaces become hostile to minorities. It's never an open discussion of bigotry, it's ten thousand tiny punches that break bones.

@wgahnagl @tyil That's fair, but a community that attempts to not hurt anyone is doomed to spend all the time on fixing issues with unintentional offence. People can be unintentionally offended by everything including variable names (master/slave thing for example). I'm sorry that it hurts someone, but I don't mean to hurt them, I'm just writing code. If they really want to get rid of these things, I invite them to find a better alternative, use sed and create a PR

@balsoft @tyil but that's it! I think we're really close to the same page! You can have a community that strives not to offend anybody, and the only step you have to take is to respond with kindness when someone brings something up.
This whole thread is because of a fork of GIMP, which essentially is a renaming PR that never got merged. The devs didn't respect the stance of the people renaming it, forcing them to fork. +

@balsoft @tyil if someone comes to you with an issue in your code, respond to their concern with a good faith effort to understand their perspective.
Asking someone to use inclusive language comes from a basis of kindness, even if their tactics are abrasive, and if you both agree that your goal is to make space for everyone, work towards a solution with them.
That's all you need to do. +

@wgahnagl @tyil The actual goal is creating good software, thank you very much. I have nothing against "marginalized groups" (indeed I think the wording is wrong) and if some folks provide me with a good alternative to a thing that hurts them I'll accept it. Authors of GIMP didn't like the new name, it's in their full right as GIMP is pretty much a brand at this point, and renaming it would ruin the popularity and thus quality.