@wgahnagl @sir The FLOSS community isn't hostile towards minorities, but it's very much focused on merit. If you yell loudly and often, but don't really bring any code to the table, people are more dismissive of your calls for action. Don't forget that most FLOSS software is also made for gratis by other people. Demanding they change the things they worked for in their spare time because you feel like it's something you deserve isn't "empathy for marginalized groups". That's just harassment.

As for the Glimpse fork of GIMP it's important to note that, in reality, the word "gimp" isn't offensive to the vast majority of the world. To demand a change that's relatively costly to most users, and to do so using harassment tactics[1], seems like a very strange thing to me if you're arguing for compassion and empathy.

[1]: I'm not saying you use harassment tactics, but the group demanding the rename on GitLab was.

@tyil but right, look at the first part of your argument. You mention minorities, and bring merit as almost an argument against them, by putting them at odds with each other. I know you didn't mean anything by it, but it's these very very small actions that build up to contribute to a hostile environment.
When you hear arguments about minorities in FLOSS constantly at odds with "merit", eventually you believe that the community doesn't aknowledge your skill, which is hostile. +

@tyil and specifically in the case of "gimp" being nonoffensive to most of the world, why do you value "most of the world" more than you value the few? Does it make a difference how many people are hurt when you know that people are hurting?
I think it really is an issue of empathy, and seeing the people on the other side of the argument as nothing more than people the other side of the argument. +

@tyil if you don't have people around you who will help you understand marginalized viewpoints, that's not a bad thing, but it's on you to look at yourself and think about the ways you might've pushed away their perspective, or silenced their voice.

@wgahnagl No, it's not "on me" to go out of my way to find things to be upset about that doesn't really affect anyone when looking at a reasonable scale.

There's bigger issues in the world that need much more attention that I'd prefer people would focus there efforts on, instead of trying to cater to the feelings of an abysmally small group of very toxic people.

@tyil but this is it, you know? I'm trying to describe to you you what I see as the disconnect between us, and help us fix it.
I feel that no matter what I write I can't convince you to value my argument if you don't take a step to see my perspective.
From here I feel that you've turned me into just "someone on the other side of the argument", which means we can't really communicate well.

@wgahnagl It's not that I don't care about your perspective, it's that there's no sane discussion to be had with people that go out of their way to look for offense all the time, when there's actual issues in the world that do affect people in negative ways. People get killed over issues all over the world all the time. 4 people having their feelings hurt because they can't understand that "GIMP" is not someone calling them "a gimp" and actively harming them is a such a non-issue.

@tyil dawg, you just said you value my perspective and then said that there's no sane discussion to be had with people who share my perspective
Like we straight up cannot understand each other like this

@wgahnagl I value your perspective, but not the result you seem to arrive at. If your idea is that everything is offensive in one way or another and therefore everything needs to change to be as emotionless as possible, then I do think there's no discussion to be had, no. I've tried this many a time, and it always devolves to being called a nazi, or people otherwise trying to defame my character instead of bringing actual arguments. This happened earlier this week, even.

I do admit I can't understand you, for I cannot understand why you'd go out of your way to find offense when there is none. I can't understand why you'd go around telling people they're offensive instead of fixing actual issues yourself. Why is it so important that a handful of people (at best) have their feelings hurt, yet millions are starving. There are places where rape is a common, lawful act to engage in. There are *actual* issues to spend your limited time on. The people that complain the loudest on social "justice" issues are one of the most privileged (as they call it) in the world.

@tyil I got you there lmao, that makes perfect sense and I agree!
But when having conversations like this, I feel like your stance leans towards "well if we care about this one small thing, what's stopping us from caring about EVERYTHING ALL AT ONCE?" which is super overwhelming and kind of self defeating, and I have a hunch that it's because people have been hostile when explaining to you why you should care (read: called you a nazi). So you see me as someone who's going to do the same thing.