Shawn Webb

Of course #ProtonMail does. The only email provider I trust is myself. Oh, wait... I farm that out to the "never be evil" Google.

But, seriously, folks, no third-party email provider's gonna go to jail to protect some rando online.

https://steigerlegal.ch/2019/05/23/protonmail-real-time-surveillance/

ProtonMail voluntarily offers Assistance for Real-Time Surveillance | Steiger Legal

The following text is an unofficial English translation of the article ProtonMail bietet freiwillig Hand für Echtzeit-Überwachungen as published on 23 May 2019 in German. The translation was arranged for …

Steiger Legal
May 29, 2019 at 5:02pmWeb
Show threadPete WrightMay 29, 2019

@lattera I really am disappointed in us a community (sysadmin's & sw devs) in not making self-hosting email a real option.

things have certainly gotten easier over time, but considering how essential email addresses are for your online identity, i feel like we should have paid more attention to making self hosting a no brainier.

imagine what we could achieve if we didn't get distracted by shit like kubernetes/AI/big-data that only benefit large corporations.

Show threadxaver artixMay 29, 2019
@nomadlogic @lattera In my eyes it's more about getting rid of e-mails and using something encrypted without metadata. e-mails just rely on bad technology in this respect.
Show threadPete WrightMay 29, 2019

@artixx @lattera I don't disagree that that is an awesome goal - but the fact remains that for a vast majority of how the populace interacts with the internet comes down to having an email address as a primary aspect of their identity.

we blew it - we decided it was too hard to manage email servers and spam or whatever and just handed it over to corporations who do not value our privacy nor security.

Show threadHenry Edward HardyMay 29, 2019

@nomadlogic @lattera

It isn't hard to self-host email.

What's hard is A) spam and B) getting google and other large email providers as well as spamhaus not to block your outgoing mail.

Show threadlawMay 29, 2019
@nomadlogic @lattera I've been self-hosting my personal and business email since ~2005. It's not THAT bad, but my biggest problem is Google and their fickle spam-munching AI. Even with every email-tester out there giving my outbound SMTP top marks, I end up in GSuite-user's Spam folders about 70% of the time. I'd do terrible things to be able to share a beer with a Gmail SRE...
Show threadMacLemonMay 30, 2019

@nomadlogic @lattera Given that many if not most young people din‘t even have an email address anymore is but one argument in the “selfhost your email” debate.
They use $messengers and their cellphone number is their primary ID.

Self-hosting email has become quite complex even for professionals. I‘ve given multiple talks on the exact matter.

It‘s technically impossible to make email secure and private, ni matter what.

What we‘ve failed as a community is providing

Show threadMacLemonMay 30, 2019

@nomadlogic @lattera an alternative that‘s easily self hosted that also covers modern communication needs and wishes to replace email in the (very) long run.

Email is for old people nowadays and for companies who don‘t think about replacing email rather sooner than later.

Get over it, email is done.

What we need is to replace the messenger silos, like WhatsApp, FB Messenger, WeChat, etc.

IMHO Matrix is the only viable contender here, but that will still take a while.

Show threadMacLemonMay 30, 2019

@nomadlogic @lattera an alternative that‘s easily self hosted that also covers modern communication needs and wishes to replace email in the (very) long run.

Email is for old people nowadays and for companies who don‘t think about replacing email rather sooner than later.

Get over it, email is done.

What we need is to replace the messenger silos, like WhatsApp, FB Messenger, WeChat, etc.

IMHO Matrix is the only viable contender here, but that will still take a while.

Show threadPete WrightMay 30, 2019

@MacLemon @lattera

There's nothing for me to get over, most online services require a valid email address to sign up. Or you use oauth from Google, fbook or whatever which still use your email address as an identifier and auth factor.

Show threadcursesMay 29, 2019
@lattera State of email is awful. It is difficult / expensive to get a PTR record from most ISP to do email on your own box. Then big email companies often still exclude you based upon generic blacklists for the ip block and this exclusion can spill over to businesses & universities who use these companies as vendors.
Show threadAntanicusMay 29, 2019

@lattera

I'd really like to hear some explanations regarding this from the folks at
@protonmail

Show threadProton MailJun 4, 2019
@Antanicus @lattera These allegations are false, and have also been refuted by the Swiss public prosecutor. You can find more details here: https://protonmail.com/blog/martin-steiger-false-statements/
Update on the question of voluntary real-time surveillance - ProtonMail Blog

Updated on September 12, 2019. As the blog post referenced by this post has been removed, this post no longer serves a purpose so we have removed it.

ProtonMail Blog
Show threadxaver artixMay 29, 2019

@lattera Here is protonmail's answer to the whole story:

https://protonmail.com/blog/martin-steiger-false-statements/

Update on the question of voluntary real-time surveillance - ProtonMail Blog

Updated on September 12, 2019. As the blog post referenced by this post has been removed, this post no longer serves a purpose so we have removed it.

ProtonMail Blog