PSA for any trans+ person looking to start, or currently doing, any kind of voice training

Seattle Voice Lab has broken their silence over a former employee of theirs (Jimmy Chen), who set up his own voice coaching service called Trans Voice Lab.

We need to address Trans Voice Lab.

We highly recommend watching / listening to the whole video, but here are some key points within their video:

  • Jimmy's employment was terminated for "manipulative teaching practices and dishonesty towards" their students.
  • He downloaded their bespoke training materials (SVL's intellectual property) and client lists (!!!), then used these to set up his own voice coaching service and write a book.
  • SVL didn't want to have to make the video, but has felt obliged to do so.
  • SVL is pursuing "legal counsel" over Jimmy's actions.

tl;dr

  • Avoid any videos or guides from Jimmy Chen.
  • Avoid using Trans Voice Lab at all costs.

Boosts and crossposts very welcome, as we need to make more folks aware of this  

#trans #transgender #enby #NonBinary #voice #VoiceTraining #VoiceTherapy #VoiceCoaching #VoiceFeminization #VoiceFeminisation #VoiceMasculinization #VoiceMasculinisation #SeattleVoiceLab #TransVoiceLab #JimmyChen #PSA #queer #LGBTQ+ #LGBTQIA+ #BoostsWelcome

We need to address Trans Voice Lab.

YouTube

Just finished watching another video by voice coach Renée Yoxon entitled Will My New Voice Ever Become My Default?.

We don't feel like we need or want (let alone even have the spoons!) to do a breakdown of the video like we've done for another video of theirs, but we wanted to share this lovely metaphor Renée used within the video with you all:

Imagine your brain is a giant, overgrown jungle. Your old voice habits are like a well-paved road. Clear, easy and fast to walk down because you've travelled it every day for years. Now you're trying to build a new path, one that leads to the voice you actually want to use. At first, you're bushwhacking. It's hard to find, it's easy to lose, and honestly, you might get discouraged and end up back on the old road. But every time you take the new path, it gets a little easier. A few branches clear, some grass gets trampled. Eventually, the new path becomes more familiar and the old one starts to get overgrown. That's what it's like when your new voice becomes your default.

#trans #transgender #TransVoice #VoiceTraining #VoiceFeminisation #VoiceFeminization #VoiceDysphoria #RenéeYoxon

Will My New Voice Ever Become My Default?

YouTube

I finally made a video. Here’s where my #VFS recovery results at around 100 days post-op.

#transition #transgender #trans #transfem #transjoy #voice #voicefeminization

Before reading any further, if you're currently experiencing any of:

  • a negative MH spiral;
  • negative self-talk; and/or
  • rumination over perceived failures;

... then please, please stop reading here and come back to this later  

As many of yous will already know, we've been struggling with voice dysphoria and voice training now for many years. We've about this many times in posts like:

Fairly recently, purely by chance whilst looking for something to highlight how awful the VoiceTools app is for voice training, we chanced across a non-binary voice coach and content creator (Renée Yoxon) via their video about how deeply-flawed the VoiceTools app is.

We haven't watched through all their videos, but we wanted to highlight -- and critique and praise -- some hopefully-relevant sections from a recent video they did with their trans+ fem collaborator Tea, entitled How Long Does Trans Voice Training Really Take?.

Renée started off the video decently (but not perfectly) with the below:

So what are some factors that affect when that shift happens? Three big factors.

One, your experience and aptitude. If you're a singer, a voice actor, or just someone who's used to experimenting with your voice, you'll likely progress faster because you already know how to move your vocal dials. So if you're not yet voice training, this is going to seem wild, but do some silly voices and impressions. It can genuinely give you a better starting point.

Not everyone will feel comfortable with doing silly voices and impressions, so we think it's counterproductive of Renée to have added this here, but otherwise yes: some of us simply are not good at or -- for various reasons -- struggle with manipulating our voice. Continuing on:

Two, your relationship to your voice. Some people are super motivated to practice, but others find voice work triggering or overwhelming. And that's okay. Your emotional connection to your voice can help or hinder your timeline, but both are normal. But if it is hard emotionally, name that to yourself and recognize that it may be harder on your progress and results.

This is SOOOOO important and often overlooked. We'd go much further though, but we want to share the third point before going into that.

Three, your time and consistency. This is a big one. Consistent practice. Even ten minutes a day is more effective than long, infrequent sessions. If you can find small ways to integrate voice work into your daily life, that builds momentum over time.

At this point, we actually got quite annoyed at Renée, as whilst they're normally really spot on, this felt like they'd ignored or not identified some major issues here that can all make voice training even more difficult than it already is.

e.g.,

  • Being neurodivergent;
  • Having mental health struggles;
  • Having physical health struggles;
  • Having chronic health conditions.
  • Finding voice training to be an unfun and even-awful chore.

For those of us who are barely hanging on a lot of the time, plenty of us just don't have the spare spoons for it.

And even if we do have the spoons, sometimes the idea of being perceived whilst doing the task can be overwhelming in of itself 😖

If the video hadn't segued there, we might have stopped watching and downvoted it. However, their trans+ fem collabor Tea stepped in here to save the video.

Hey, so as Renée's longtime collaborator and someone who has chronic issues with my relationship to my voice, as well as finding time and consistency to voice train I wanted to hijack this video for a minute.
I have still not really started organized voice training, and I work with a trans voice trainer. And this is because I find it really emotionally challenging.

This is the experience that a lot of trans+ people have and it's not highlighted enough, as we sadly see the world filtered by those for whom voice training has come naturally or been super successful within a short period of time (e.g., 6-12 months).

She goes on to discuss gradual changes in a way that is much-more grounded.

Now, this may sound funny looking at me, but for the first five years of my transition, I avoided any physical activity like it was the plague.
I associated muscle with masculinity, and as such, any muscle I already had from working a semi physical job caused me a lot of dysphoria and had to be gotten rid of.
But at that five year mark I got sick and tired of well- feeling sick and tired. So I started working out because I wanted to be able to carry my groceries, more easily move my camera gear, and make mundane things easier.
That started small and this is not a joke. I did exactly ten minutes a day. Every day at lunch I would do three exercises with 5 pound weights. I wasn't following some get swole quick routine. I chose three arm exercises that I just assumed would help with what I mentioned.

She then goes on to explain what this felt like:

At first, my arms just always felt tired and sore and it took a couple of months, but I started to see small improvements. Then I thought, well, but this other movement is tough. So I added an exercise for that and so on and so on. And four and a half years later, I look like this. I work out three times a week and I use 25 pound weights. And believe me, I didn't think I would get to 15 pound weights when I started.

This is a fantastic analogy for voice training, especially in terms of the timeframe.

That journey was full of moments where I thought, "Damn, I'm not improving. It's not getting easier. I haven't reached another easily quantifiable plateau." And that still honestly happens to me at points right now.
But here's the reality. And yes, this is tying back into voice training. If I've learned anything, is that human bodies are not machines: muscles, dexterity. and control, which are all involved in voice work, just with very different muscles that aren't as easy to visually identify, do not build linearly.

Exactly this!!! Many of us will reach points where we feel like we're not getting anywhere, and voice training is a form of physical exercise as much as a mental one.

And it's really frustrating. Really frustrating. But what I've learned is that the body loves slow, consistent work. It understands that and will meet you where you are. What it doesn't understand is when you go 0 to 60 instantly. So if you go from no voice work at all to an hour a day, you are likely to hurt yourself because your body thinks you're in a temporary crisis.

Again, this highlights the importance of taking it low and slow, rather than trying to race ahead too quickly.

My point is, you may hear ten minutes a day, or start with a daily warmup and think that's too little. It can't really do anything. But you're wrong. So long as when it gets easy, you take it up that one step further. Now, wish me luck. That I can actually make myself apply that to my voice, too.

This ending point is perhaps the best one. Tea isn't coming from a place of mastery: she's coming from a place of recognising the struggles she's been having and is continuing to have.

And we guess that Tea must have talked with Renée about this video, as Renée then continues on with this amazing bit of wisdom:

Now, what if it takes even longer than you're expecting? If that happens, that's totally normal. Some people take a year, some take five or more. No matter how long it takes, the time is going to pass anyway. As long as you keep moving forward bit by bit, you'll keep progressing.

This is something absolutely fucking pivotal to voice training, and they go further:

Everyone starts in a different place and has a different goal. Comparison is the thief of joy and will only slow you down.

Yes!!! We DO NOT all start with the same inherent abilities and capabilities. If we keep comparing ourselves to others, we will find only despair.

They then give some advice on what to do if you're in a funk:

If you're feeling stuck or plateaued. It might be time to listen back to your old recordings. You're probably doing better than you think.
Revisit the basics with fresh ears. Try adding a new exercise or warm up technique to your routine. Get support from a coach or peer who can offer feedback. Or maybe take a break.

Doing exactly this is what has stopped us from completely breaking from our own voice dysphoria, which we have found to be one of the most-crippling things for us.

Renée ends on a realistic but positive note:

Here's the truth. Your voice won't stay the same forever. As your life. Identity and confidence shift, so will your relationship with your voice. The voice that feels right today might evolve into something slightly different next year, and that's not a failure, that's growth! Remarkable growth.

So, for anyone / anybody& who is also struggling with their own voice, just like us, we want to remind you that you are not failing and you are not a failure.

Anyway, we hope this helps someone / somebody&  

#trans #transgender #TransVoice #VoiceTraining #VoiceFeminisation #VoiceFeminization #VoiceDysphoria #RenéeYoxon

SleepyCatten (@SleepyCatten@cultofshiv.wtf)

Attached: 1 audio Hey folks 🩷 We did the #TransVoiceFriday thing 🫶 Once again, cos of the stupid alt-text character limit, we've had to put the transcript within the post. #TransVoice #VoiceTraining #VoiceFeminisation #VoiceDysphoria #trans #transgender #TransFem #TransWoman #transition #queer #LGBTQ+ #LGBTQIA+ ### Transcript Hey lovelies, loveliers and loveliests. We're going to try to do a quick voice recording while it's still Trans Voice Friday, because we haven't done one in a while, and we feel like we should try to whilst we can. We haven't exactly made a breakthrough as such with our voice or anything, but we have begun to feel like maybe it's not as awful as we'd started to believe it must be, due to the frequent misgenderings we've continued to have in recent months. Part of this was from realising that we actually do have limited recordings of our pre -transition voice, going at least as far back as about 2004, which was during our uni days. We actually have even older recordings going as far back as 1999, but those are in digitised versions of family video recordings and lower audio quality. Listening to those made us realise that we have gradually feminised our voice over the last four plus years, which kinda helped us to stop completely hating our current voice. Don't get us wrong, we still don't like our current voice, and very much want to improve it. However, it softened the feeling of cringe we'd been having whenever listening back to ourselves. We've also realised that, from others' point of view, we actually don't have a bad voice or vocal range. For example, if we work our way gradually into it, we can raise our pitch and hold it higher like this more-stereotypically-femme head voice. It doesn't sound particularly awful to us, but it also doesn't sound quite like how it should sound. So we tend to let it sit around this level instead. By the same token, if we focus on our voice, we can gradually push it lower and lower and keep using this deep chest voice. But the moment we stop holding it down here, it naturally floats back up to this point we've got ourselves to. Once we've got more time and energy, we'll try to do more recordings and share thoughts, but for now, this will sadly have to do. Ta-ta for now. **Edit:** In case anyone's interested, our pitch range was about as low as 81 Hz and apparently as high as 274 Hz, but we're not 100% sure. However, given that we were given a pitch target of A#3, which is about 233 Hz, ages back, it's not impossible.

The Cult of Shiv

Hey lovelies  

We've been meaning to write this up for a while, but we first needed to scramble together enough executive function to do so.

For context, we're a non-binary trans woman who first went through an androgenic puberty in her teens, causing her voice to permanently deepen. As such, the focus of our vent is on voice feminisation, rather than masculinisation, androgynisation, etc.

We only finally realised / accepted that we were trans in late March / early April 2021. It then took us until December 2021 to begin any kind of voice training with a voice coach (Louise Milner-Smith, All About Your Voice).

Like a lot of newly-cracked eggs, we went online and tried to find voice feminisation guides. We came across cursed communities like r/transvoice and cursed voice coaches like TransVoiceLessons.

What we sadly discovered were guides that were overly-complicated and inaccessible to us as a neurospicy beginner with no prior musical training or singing talent 😞

The guides typically tended to jump into theory or used specific terms like "head voice" and "chest voice", and asked us to increase our "resonance" and "raise our larynx" 😖

These might as well have written in another language for all the sense they made to us 🥺

To make matters sadly worse, the videos were typically by US-based trans voice coaches with musical and singing backgrounds, who shared the primary goal of sounding like a stereotypically-feminine cis woman.

Our goal with voice training was never to sound like someone we're not.

We didn't and still don't want to sound like an uwu girl: we simply wanted and still want our voice to be as close as possible to the one we'd have had if we'd never gone through an androgenic puberty.

To say that these videos, posts, and resources were demoralising is an understatement. They made us feel like we were constantly failing, because clearly if so many others were able to focus and do this, the problem must be with us, right?

After 3 years plus of voice training, using what we learnt from voice coach Louise Milner-Smith, we've made some progress with our voice. It's hard to say how much it truly passes, but we typically get gendered as a woman these days by non-transphobic strangers. However, we're still not happy with out voice, and we're at the point where we'll likely need some form of voice feminisation surgery to get there.

The biggest thing we've come to realise is that we're not the only person who struggles with voice training, particularly when it comes to pitch. The reason we don't tend to see or hear about this as much is due to the:

  • survivorship bias;
  • push for gender-conformity; and
  • toxic positivity...

... within the mainstream, visible voice training community 😔

Whilst there are exceptions to the rule, the guides and videos you see about voice feminisation tend to fall into one of the following categories:

We don't have an issue with voice coaches promoting their services, but the ones online are typically very expensive and way outside of the price range of many trans people. It can be extra disheartening to see that such services exist, but are behind a paywall.

For the free guides, whilst it's great that people want to help, if it's presented as something that anyone can learn to do with enough time and hard work, it will dishearten those who cannot achieve the same outcomes as those in the videos.

ICKY, for example, speaks as if it's just a matter of training daily and working hard at the voice until it becomes routine, and that you'll learn to love your new voice. However, this experience isn't universal, and it's possible both to make progress and to still feel intense voice dysphoria.

We know that some people are going to read this and think that we're being pessimistic about voice training, but it's honestly rather than we want those within the voice training community to be more realistic about the fact that some people will not achieve the voice they want.

It doesn't help too that the voice training community is, by and large, completely against voice feminisation surgery, despite the fact that it has improved the lives of many trans fems who've had it done well. Sure, it has risks, but so do all surgeries.

We hasten to add, we're not against voice training: we just think that most voice coaching is too expensive and most free guides either don't make sense or focus on the wrong things, rather than focussing on fundamentals (e.g., strengthening vocal folds; controlling breathe whilst speaking). Then again, it's more click-baity to do a video on "the trick to a feminine voice".

Anyways, we may return to this post and make edits or additions later, but for now, that's most of it out of our system. If you've read this far down, thank you for taking the time to do so.

#VoiceTraining #TransVoice #VoiceFeminisation #VoiceFeminization #VFS #trans #transgender #NonBinary #agender #bigender #genderfluid #genderqueer #LGBTQ+ #LGBTQIA+ #queer #transition #SurvivorshipBias

Transgender voice coaching and therapy - All About Your Voice

Transgender voice coaching and therapy in Woking, Surrey to help achieve congruent voice quality for your true gender.

All About Your Voice

In solidarity with @ChaosKitsune, per her thread here, we thought we'd record the first paragraph from the Wikipedia article on Gamma Rays. It's genuinely a big deal to share your voice online, especially when you've got massive voice dysphoria, so we wanted to show some support.

N.B., Yes: we have massive voice dysphoria ourselves after 3+ years of training, despite the progress we've objectively made.

#TransVoice #VoiceTraining #VoiceFeminisation #VoiceFeminization

Leah :neocat_blush_hide: :v_trans: (@ChaosKitsune)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma_ray Here I did some voice training reading this wikipedia haha. I kept telling myself id voice train so here is my first attempt in a while. Open to feedback... My gosh its kinda embarrassing to upload this XD #VoiceTraining #TransVoice #Trans (📎1)

what is a woɘmₘₑₙ?

Hey folks  

It's trans voice Friday, so here's another rambling, tired voice recording for y'all to listen to if you want.

In case anyone cannot access the alt text, we've added the full transcript below (generated via audio-to-text).

Hey folks! SleepyCatten here. I'm just gonna do a very quick Trans Voice Friday recording as our brain is incredibly tired right now and we can barely hold any thoughts straight. Which is quite funny because we're not straight in the slightest. Anyway, I had a really nice electrolysis session today for two main reasons. One, because the numbing cream we used was so good that we barely felt anything. We've modified some J-Cain cream with some IPM, which increases the absorption and moisturization effect. Basically it's not technically a penetration enhancer, but it acts like one in many ways. And um... Also because we were talking about voice and voice feminization surgery with our electrolytist. And then we asked her, have you ever heard our voice like what it sounded like roughly before? And she said she hadn't. So I said, do you want to? We said sure. And then I just dropped my voice down here and she was like: "No way! That can't have been your voice beforehand!" And it's not quite my voice beforehand because it's an approximation. Now, it's just pushing our voice down lower and it wasn't quite where we were. But it is interesting to see how far we've come. Um, albeit it's nearly three years of voice training now and that's how far we've managed. Anyway, take care all. Bye.

#TransVoiceFriday #TransVoice #voice #VoiceFeminisation #VoiceFeminization #VoiceTraining #trans #transgender #TransFem

Hey folks  

We've actually done an unwritten, off-the-cusp trans voice Friday recording today  

We've not listened back to it, because voice dysphoria, but we've added full alt text.

In case you're wondering how we've done that without listening back to it, we've once against used an amazing tool called Subtitle Edit, which has audio to text functionality via the Whisper speech recognition engine.

We used the large-v3 model, which is about 3.1 GB, but gives incredibly accurate transcription.

In case anyone can't access the alt text, we've added the full transcript below too.

#TransVoiceFriday #TransVoice #voice #VoiceFeminisation #VoiceFeminization #VoiceTraining #trans #transgender #TransFem #VoiceDysphoria #SubtitleEdit #PurfviewWhisper #AudioToText #SpeechToText #SpeechRecognition

Hey folks, I know that we haven't done a voice note in forever, and that's been for a multitude of reasons, some of which are related to mental health, some of which are related to work, stress, anxiety, depression, etc, things like that, which comes under mental health anyway, yeah, partly due to poor time management, yay for being AuDHD! But not gonna lie, some of it does come down to underlying voice dysphoria, because this is the best we've managed to get since December 2021. And just for anyone who hasn't heard roughly what we sounded like beforehand, we haven't exactly moved our voice up a lot. I mean, the base level would just be down here. So I can move my voice back up here easily now, and this is the comfortable, this is the default voice. But, um... It's not where I want it to be, it's not in the female range, and I can't easily push the pitch up higher without it sounding wrong. But yeah, there's been a lot of stuff going on recently, um, a lot of bad stuff for everyone, don't want to talk about all of that. But, um, let's just focus on supporting each other, helping each other, um, being kind to ourselves and others right now, and being compassionate and empathetic. That's all I've really got to say. I'm trying to do the same thing with ourselves, but yeah, it's hard sometimes. Anyway, ta-ta for now.

Nikse.dk

@shiri Thanks for the amazing thoughts there Shiri 🥰

They actually echo what our voice coach was trying to get us to do when we stopped doing regular sessions: get used to talking in the higher pitch, so it became more comfortable, natural, and strengthened.

Part of her last advice to us was using an app called Sing & See (Student version) to focus on getting our pitch slowly up to A#3.

Giggle technique to sustain strength and stamina in the larynx whilst creating optimum laryngeal posture for your best voice.

/h/ + vowels breathy chant at A#3 (use sing and see). (This is a really good warm up for the whole larynx).

Then look at the /h/ longer phrases. These specifically focus on breath support. The exhale is the stabiliser.
Start each 1st syllable in chant to establish A#3 then go into the spoken femme voice.
Remember vocal wave and exhale to keep vowels soft.
From the onset think Vocal Springboard to immediately lift your voice and vocally engage with the listener.
Don’t drop the final syllables, just dip them slightly.
Think - Don’t drop the vocal full stop!
Repeat the phrases to increase familiarity and connect with mindset.

Look at the consonant longer phrases A#3 onset and use the above strategies.

Vocal generalisation:-
Days of the week A#3
Months of the year A#3
Think Vocal Wave and exhale.

Vocal flooding:-
Chant “This is my A#3 voice” (use sing and see)
Chant “I really like my A#3 voice”

Looking back, we've focussed so much on everything else (including a lot of life stuff) that we've really neglected doing this, because we don't feel comfortable with that A#3 voice... yet.

@Gwendolyn Don't know if this will help you at all, but Louise gave us some parting great advice:

Remember we talked about Tags to sustain femme voice or reset femme voice if it drifts lower. These are little words like ‘So’, ‘Well’, ‘Right’, ‘Anyway’ etc… Initially, purposefully overuse the Tags to increase familiarity with the mindset and create a habit.

Overall remember VETS (the 4 main vocal parameters to sustaining your femme voice):-
V - Vocal Wave
E - Exhale
T - Tags
S - Springboard

#TransVoice #VoiceTherapy #VoiceTraining #VoiceFeminisation #VoiceFeminization #transition

What's this?

Evie actually remembered to do a trans voice Friday recording... on a Friday?! 😲

#TransVoiceFriday #TransVoice #voice #VoiceTraining #trans #transgender #TransFem #transition #LGBTQ+ #LGBTQIA+ #VoiceFeminisation #VoiceFeminization

×

Hey folks  

We've actually done an unwritten, off-the-cusp trans voice Friday recording today  

We've not listened back to it, because voice dysphoria, but we've added full alt text.

In case you're wondering how we've done that without listening back to it, we've once against used an amazing tool called Subtitle Edit, which has audio to text functionality via the Whisper speech recognition engine.

We used the large-v3 model, which is about 3.1 GB, but gives incredibly accurate transcription.

In case anyone can't access the alt text, we've added the full transcript below too.

#TransVoiceFriday #TransVoice #voice #VoiceFeminisation #VoiceFeminization #VoiceTraining #trans #transgender #TransFem #VoiceDysphoria #SubtitleEdit #PurfviewWhisper #AudioToText #SpeechToText #SpeechRecognition

Hey folks, I know that we haven't done a voice note in forever, and that's been for a multitude of reasons, some of which are related to mental health, some of which are related to work, stress, anxiety, depression, etc, things like that, which comes under mental health anyway, yeah, partly due to poor time management, yay for being AuDHD! But not gonna lie, some of it does come down to underlying voice dysphoria, because this is the best we've managed to get since December 2021. And just for anyone who hasn't heard roughly what we sounded like beforehand, we haven't exactly moved our voice up a lot. I mean, the base level would just be down here. So I can move my voice back up here easily now, and this is the comfortable, this is the default voice. But, um... It's not where I want it to be, it's not in the female range, and I can't easily push the pitch up higher without it sounding wrong. But yeah, there's been a lot of stuff going on recently, um, a lot of bad stuff for everyone, don't want to talk about all of that. But, um, let's just focus on supporting each other, helping each other, um, being kind to ourselves and others right now, and being compassionate and empathetic. That's all I've really got to say. I'm trying to do the same thing with ourselves, but yeah, it's hard sometimes. Anyway, ta-ta for now.