KIBI GôApr 17, 2018
does there yet exist a book or analysis or discussion on lesbian terminology in the late twenty teens because i know a lot of the tumblr crowd uses terms like “wlw” or “sapphic” but i've never understood the cultural or community distinctions that those connotate over gay and/or lesbian
Show threadsummer spriteApr 17, 2018

@kibi i think part of it is that there are a lot of people on tumblr who insist on a very narrow definition of lesbian (i mean not unique to tumblr but like, nobody yells at you if yr like, pan and dare to call yrself a lesbian on masto forex afaict)

so like some of it is being influenced by those folks' usages, some of it is due to wanting to avoid getting harassed by the more strident of them, some of it is an intentional positioning in opposition to them

Show thread👀🌲Apr 17, 2018
@srn @kibi Biphobic gatekeeping about who's really a "lesbian" isn't new, though - I saw it in the 90s, and it wasn't new then either. Like, as far as I ever knew, the idea that "lesbian" meant you are exclusively or at least primarily attracted to women was the standard definition. It's only in the last few years I've started seeing people use "lesbian" explicitly to include all queer women-and-allied-enbies.
Show thread👀🌲Apr 17, 2018
@srn @kibi It is honestly surprising to me that anyone would expect bi/pan women to feel comfortable under the lesbian banner. Like, sure there's some "lol I'm gay" shitposting but that's not the same as being able to walk into a space thinking "yep this bar is definitely gonna be friendly and inclusive to me, no one will be weird if I bring my male partners to the softball game, my date will not demand to see my queerness resume".
Show threadsummer spriteApr 17, 2018

@mcmoots @kibi i mean i feel like i describe myself with a lot of terms that i don’t trust that people fitting under will be inclusive and friendly to me

like “woman” and “pan” and “queer” forex

Show thread👀🌲Apr 17, 2018

@srn @kibi Fair. There are definitely other spaces where I fight for inclusive definitions rather than shrugging and picking a new label (it's probably part of why I haven't embraced an agender label for myself, I've still got political if not personal attachment to "woman"hood).

Not sure what the difference is here. Maybe just that the exclusive definition was the first one I encountered + I have another label that I'm happy with.

Show thread👀🌲Apr 17, 2018
@srn @kibi Or the lack of symmetry, since if "lesbian" is an umbrella term that leaves no specific label for monosexual queer women. Which means they're the default class and bi/pan women are a marked case? Like if you tried to talk about "women" and "trans women" without using the word cis.
Show threadKIBI GôApr 17, 2018
@mcmoots @srn see for me terms like "wlw" have *more* implicit gatekeeping and erasure than just "gay" or "lesbian"—if i went out and started dating a man, literally no passerby on the street would see that as "straight" but it doesn't fit under the labels of "mlm" OR "wlw"—and same for literally any relationship involving a nonbinary person. so it creates solidarity between (mostly cis) binary gender identities but while erasing everyone else?
Show thread👀🌲
@kibi @srn Yeah, "wlw" explicitly includes cis bi women while asking trans women & women-allied enbies to just kinda hope they're covered by any given community's definition of "women". Not endorsing it.
Apr 18, 2018 at 12:09amWeb