i also hesitate to vote marine le pen because she says she wants to bring back order and i would love that she brings it into my room lmao.
joking she's a racist/homophobic/sexist far right candidate i hate her
@Leonard Careful that she doesn't use last night's shooting to her electoral benefit. From what I've heard, she wouldn't stand above it.
@Rosencrantz Yeah i've seen it too i hate her so much i fear the fact she could be our next president she's fascist
@Leonard I do so hate to sound like a smug little green fellow, living in a swamp, but one should be careful with "hate". It tends to muck up one's rational faculties.
@Rosencrantz I dont believe in rationality and free-will bro but i understand what u mean
@Leonard Why ever not? Rousseau and Voltaire would be spinning in their graves if they heard that.
@Rosencrantz When I was ypunger I was a true fan of those dudes I have read "Du Contrat Social" of Rousseau when I was 15 and I agreed so much to what he said. Then I discovered Spinoza dude and everything became more clear in my very own philosophy. I think we're driven by our passions and that we're all conditionned. We're all differents in the way we have been conditionned but there is always a passion behind a pseudo-rationnality.

@Leonard Fair, but in my experience, life is rarely binary. Just because passions push us, doesn't mean that rationality doesn't guide us. Or can't.

I once made the likeness that passion is the fuel. Rationality is the engine. Well, that time, I argued morality was the engine, but the allegory still works. With poor fuel, you won't get far even with a mastercrafted engine. But without a good engine, a potent fuel will probably destroy everything. You need both to get anywhere with either.

@Rosencrantz I understand what u mean bro rationnality is a thing but "pure" rationnality does not exist. U said it yourself : its fueled by passion. I also think that she's constructed w/ what we experienced, read, lived. We are constantly forging our own paradigm wich drives our "rationnality". So yeah mathematic and all stuff help thinking but can always be interpretated differently. If you can classify the "machines" of other ppl why would you be more "true" ?

@Leonard Purity is a charade for pregnant virgins. And the alpha and omega for reductionists.

I'd prefer thinking of rationality as a tool. Unlike what Rousseau and his cronies did. And the more tools you have and have mastered, the more adept you will be. The better care you take of your tools, the sharper, more efficient they will be when you need them. Forsaking a tool is the same as crippling yourself. Well, in my opinion.

@Rosencrantz So how do u define "rationnality" ? As mathematic, academic stuff, that helps thinking ? But the same number can be interpretated differently. If "rationnality" helps interpreating, I think its only the word ppl use to legitimate there own paradigm. Paradigm is always forged with what we feel, the passions. As you can see, at the end, passions always drive our way to think. Then, rationnality dont exist as something that is universal. Thinkin there is 1 rationnality is a ground for
@Leonard I don't concider it an ideal. A political or scientific one. It's a tool. You could argue the same with... passion, really. Schopenhauer mde the case that everything is subjective. Arguing that rationality is more important than anything else is just as correct/wrong as arguing that passion is more important than everything.

@Rosencrantz (Omg you quoted Schoppenhauer i want you to know that i also like his way to consider things.)

Okay, then rationnality is the name you give to the way we interpret things.

And I agree with you ! We always use some form of logic to understand the world around us.

But this logic isnt universal, and because it's not, then why do you call it a "tool" ? If it can be handled in different ways, its because of passion (aka "the person").

THEREFORE : everything is linked with passion.

@Rosencrantz What I mean w/ "rationnality dont exist" is "pure rationnality can't exist because we always think w/ passion"

I think we understand each other on this point, right ?

@Leonard I think "pure reason can't exist because we think with passion" is just as true as "pure passion doesn't exist because all our passions are tempered with reason".
@Rosencrantz But where comes the reason from ? From what we lived, for what experience push us to consider as a reason. Reason isn't absolute.