lynXTen years ago it wasn't so hard to create a political Internet movement all based on open and free software platforms. Now everyone can't keep their fingers off of the corporate cloud offerings, be it for communication, shared editing or conferencing. Why does humanity always have to go 3 steps forward, then 2 steps back? :( @aral :
Wessel Dublin@lynX @aral Sorry to disappoint you with this. I think that 10 years ago it was possible as well only with a marginal group of people. This always requires a balancing of outreach vs. taking the risk of using a tool that might scare people of (we shouldn't pretend this isn't a problem). Especially with ad hoc initiatives like now with the vote, we therefore need to "sin", reluctantly.
@Wessel_Dublin By 2011 there were 30'000 people in the German Pirates, the majority clearly not of a computing background. Not everyone figured out the wiki, but it wasn't too hard for them to use etherpads without the latest thrills and frills added by Google. So I support @aral anytime in his claim that this can be done without selling anyones souls to the surveillance economy.
@lynX @aral Please let's not regress to a sinners vs. the virtuous discussion. It's beyond doubt that we'd ideally not use Google/FB etc. Local groups of the Pirate Party actually use FB. The DiEM Cafe is a grassroots initiative, and we have rationally considered the different options (please join our discussions if you want to contribute). For normal DiEM members, Zoom is more easy to use than Mumble; especially for starting a call with multiple groups at the same time coordinated by 1 person
@Wessel_Dublin @aral I never said a political movement can afford to be inactive on Facebook. The question is if it attracts people *away* from Facebook or exposes even more people to manipulative dark advertising or dashboard hacks like in the 2009 Malvinas incident.
@Wessel_Dublin How do you attract people away? Instead of posting the interesting link to Facebook, you post it to your own forum — then post the forum link on Facebook. So if the people on Facebook want to comment on the article, they have a motivation to do so on the forum!
@lynX That would be a more sensible strategy indeed, instead of categorically not using certain platforms. I would certainly be in favour of DiEM25 implementing a certain strategy for this (or code of conduct for members/DSCs).
@lynX By the way, the great thing about Zoom vis-a-vis Mumble is the video conferences instead of only audio. We always used Mumble with DiD, but using Zoom definitely creates more involvement in the conversation because you can see each other. Are you maybe aware of a good alternative to Zoom that uses video conferencing?