Doc Edward Morbius ❌​Apr 6, 2017
An administrative announcement.
Motherfuckers.
https://mastodon.cloud/media/oxNPAqhKHeUAAvMv1X8
Show threadDoc Edward Morbius ❌​

Q: What's this "Federation thing?"

A: A bunch of communities, on different servers, sharing /some/ but not necessarily /all/ of their traffic. Or, in some cases, none. It depends.

The User Guide has a good section:
https://github.com/tootsuite/mastodon/blob/master/docs/Using-Mastodon/User-guide.md#decentralization-and-federation

Apr 9, 2017 at 10:46amWeb
Show threadDoc Edward Morbius ❌​Apr 9, 2017

Q: It sounds as if that's complicated. Do you have a picture you can share?

A: @vhf made one: https://techn.ical.ist/users/vhf/updates/102

It misses a few edge cases, but mostly, that's how the spice flows. Er, toots.

Show threadDoc Edward Morbius ❌​Apr 11, 2017

Q: What about descriptions of associated networks, Stats / Nodes / Instances / Hubs, etc?

A:

* diaspora, friendica & hubzilla: https://the-federation.info/
* gnusocial & postactiv: http://www.fediverse.org/
* mastodon: https://instances.mastodon.xyz/

Fediverse visualization: https://kumu.io/wakest/fediverse

See: https://gnusocial.no/notice/1928996
h/t @ymivlr

Show threadMitchellApr 11, 2017
@dredmorbius @ymivlr don't forget fediwiki.info ! I put a bunch of cool info about how GNUSocial works, with API documentation, etc. as well as a How-to-setup-mastodon-in-docker tutorial!
Show threadDoc Edward Morbius ❌​Apr 11, 2017
@stitchxd @ymivlr Since this toot is part of the FAQ, you've just added it :smile:
Show threadMitchellApr 11, 2017
@dredmorbius @ymivlr hhehehe awesome! :D
Show threadYmivlrApr 11, 2017
Noted.

Thank you for putting that together.
Show threadMitchellApr 11, 2017
@ymivlr Not a problem!
Show threadDan YorkApr 9, 2017
@dredmorbius @vhf Interesting. I did not understand that if someone is not followed by *anyone* on an instance, then *none* of their tweets appear in the federated timeline. So the "federated timeline" is only those users who have some connection to your instance. This means that the larger instances (ex. mastodon.social, mastodon.cloud) will have a bigger and richer federated timeline by virtue of having more people who will follow others on other instances.
Show threadDoc Edward Morbius ❌​Apr 9, 2017

@danyork @vhf Keep in mind that bigger need not equal richer. If you're on a smaller Instance with a discerning population, you may find it's selecting out the good stuff, and kicking off the bad.

That's where the follow-bot concept strikes me as potentially badly misguided. It directly disrupts the selection and filtering behaviour of organic following.

It's not clear to me that it's possible to readily distinguish bot from non-bot traffic.

Show threadAswath RaoApr 9, 2017
@danyork @dredmorbius @vhf This is an important restriction that allows for "Live and let live" aspect of federation. Total "open" federation will be polluting; strict "following" federation will restrict organic growth. This is a happy medium while maintaining a happy medium. I think we shouldn't focus on "larger" instances; instead instances that have a well defined "tribal" attribute.
Show threadAswath RaoApr 9, 2017
@vhf @dredmorbius @danyork Each instance is neither an island nor a bar; but a moat which opens for a friend of a friend
Show threadDan YorkApr 10, 2017
@Aswath @dredmorbius @vhf Good point about finding a happy medium. My point was really that the "experience" of "federated Mastodon" will vary based on the size of your instance. On a large instance, the "federated timeline" might have many entries and give you a view of a "firehose". On a very small instance, it may seem like few people are in the federated timeline. It might make people there wonder what all the buzz is about.
Show thread@[email protected] Apr 9, 2017
@danyork @dredmorbius @vhf This is a very good point: and would seem an issue to find ways to remedy...ideally the federated timeline should be as close to showing the entire network as possible, no?
Show threadDan YorkApr 10, 2017
@tchambers @dredmorbius @vhf As@[email protected] has pointed out, a fully-federated timeline would be overwhelming and would "pollute" instances focused on building smaller communities. The Mastodon implementation is an interesting balance. Effectively you have everyone who is a "friend of a friend". So it is more than just local, but not *everyone*.
Show thread@[email protected] Apr 10, 2017
@danyork @dredmorbius @vhf Hmmmm. Agree that this is by design, and can see how it functions in this space. But it does seem of value for people to be able to view a Federation-wide view of things too SOMEHOW. In essence when they wish to, to be able to view what is "trending" across the entire network, or to do searches across the entire network of posts and people as FB and Twitter allow.
Show threadDoc Edward Morbius ❌​Apr 10, 2017

@tchambers @danyork @vhf My read is that "trending across the network" has a /different meaning/ within Mastodon / GNU Social / oStatus. The inter-node filtration is part of the trending signal. The structure is far more neural in the sense that a node may choose to amplify /or suppress/ a signal. Both those functions are critical in forming meaning.

The more I think of this, the less I like the followbots.

Show threadDan YorkApr 10, 2017
@tchambers @dredmorbius @vhf That was my initial thought... that there ought to be some way to "see it all" or to "search it all". But that could rapidly become a firehose... and to manage that you really need an algorithm. And right now Mastodon is keeping the chronological feed as Twitter used to do, before it became too big and we needed the algorithm to help. I think there is value in smaller communities.
Show threadLee 🚀Apr 9, 2017
@dredmorbius @vhf Awesome info. Helps me understand things a bit more.
Show threadColin the MathmoAug 10, 2018

@dredmorbius I know this too is quite old (by some standards) but it gives a security warning first, and then a 404.

Do you have a more recent diagram?

CC: @vhf

Show threadDoc Edward Morbius ❌​Aug 10, 2018

@ColinTheMathmo @vhf Sorry, no.

Looks like Internet Archive does NOT have a copy :-(

Show threadColin the MathmoAug 10, 2018

@dredmorbius Was it something like this:

http://www.solipsys.co.uk/images/TootFlow.png

CC: @vhf

Show threadDoc Edward Morbius ❌​Aug 10, 2018
@ColinTheMathmo @vhf Might have been. I really don't recall.
Show threadDoc Edward Morbius ❌​Apr 12, 2017

Q: Does Federation -- different sites and even networks interconnecting -- mean that there might be the same username in different places?

A: Yes. It's a lot like email in that regard. "rosa.martinez" might exist on, say, Gmail, Hotmail, and Yahoo, but be three separate people. Or two the same and one different. You've got to check.

See: https://mastodon.social/users/drw/updates/1749823

Show threadArin Basu :white_check_mark:Apr 12, 2017
@dredmorbius And that should be OK, it's just the way it works in real life. Same name, different persona, different context. What makes me like Mastodon even more is this anonymity; allows for freedom of expression.
Show threadDoc Edward Morbius ❌​Apr 12, 2017

@arinbasu Understood. My documentation here is about what it /is/, not whether it is /ok/.

Helping people understand the system behaviour, such that they're not surprised by it.

Show threadhanung665 :flag_id:Apr 12, 2017
@dredmorbius At the future, how can we know if, let say, [email protected], is the official account of Ducati representative rather that the fake one, let say, [email protected]?
Show threadDoc Edward Morbius ❌​Apr 12, 2017

@hanung665 You'd have to get out-of-band verification, or a specific denial.

There was a profile claiming to be a co-founder of Mastodon yesterday. It looked and smelled funny, I did some investigation. Eventually Gargron made a statement that there was no such thing.

The account's toots started disappearing, and someone claimed that it had been stolen from him (or copied, not sure which).

It becomes a test of truth -- consistency and correspondence are strong tip-offs.

See: Epistemology.

Show threadDoc Edward Morbius ❌​Apr 12, 2017

@hanung665 Wikipedia's Criteria of Truth page lists various tests, some better than others.
"[T[here seem to be only three functional, effective tests of truth[:] correspondence, coherence and pragmatic."

"Pragmatic" is "is the knowledge useful in application?"
"Correspondence" is "does the knowledge correspond with that it describes?"
"Coherence" is "are all pertinent facts arranged in a consistent and cohesive fashion as an integrated whole?"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criteria_of_truth

Show threadDoc Edward Morbius ❌​Apr 12, 2017
@hanung665 There's also the consistency tests: do the claims not contradict one another, and relate in a logical fashion. You might consider this a /rational/ test of truth. It's useful, but incomplete. Often it's all we have to go on, though, and it can be leveraged in useful ways.
Show threadDoc Edward Morbius ❌​Apr 12, 2017

Q: Is there a realtime-updating network overview with zoomable historical data?

A: Yes: https://mnm.eliotberriot.com/

Screenshot showing 2 days of data as of 12 April, 2017. https://mastodon.cloud/media/RCObGXKeNw8xCXy-47s