@softicecreamlesley

there is respect for other people, which is a general thing and apply to situations other than the table: these are pretty clearly good

but putting your knife and fork in a certain position when chewing or not putting your elbows on the table? seems like a con.

@jamesrg Most table manners are pretty practical. You put your silverware on the plate as to not soil the tablecloth. Napkin on the lap for the same reason. Japanese manners of not replacing lids on dishes so the wait staff knows you have eaten.

Over the years, I have taught hundreds of Toyota mechanics basic table manners in preparation for homestays. Basic table manners are not hard to learn or to master. Why you feel the need for a poll on this is beyond me.

@softicecreamlesley

it's for stuff like this:

some people will put a napkin on their lap

some people will tuck it into their shirt or wear it like a bib

some people won't use a napkin

under some logic of table manners, one of those people is being... rude? disrespectful? wrong?

practicality, i get. but manners are never purely about practicality. and so i polled.

@jamesrg You make it sound as if learning basic table manners is akin to learning how to do brain surgery.

As I have said before, having basic good table manners is about respecting the people eating with you. If you are unwilling to do this (and ignorance is not an excuse, I always taught my students to look around if they unsure about what to do), it means you do not respect them. You should not eat with others if you can’t make this tiny bit of effort. Please eat alone.

@softicecreamlesley morning leslie, i did us the favour of sleeping on this.

i think what you said in terms of learning, ignorance, or refusal, are not things i mentioned. did you take any of my statements to mean that i would refuse to behave in a way acceptable to my hosts? or that other people should? why?

the reason i ask any of this is that this instance, is at heart, cross-cultural. we know that there is no objective truth when it comes to whether you slurp your noodles or not 1/?

@softicecreamlesley

so while table manners can, at their best, be means of showing respect to your hosts, they can also be used as a means to "other" people. i have seen this happen.

given that these rules are arbitrary and often opaque, i often feel that the expectation of strict table manners can and do turn meals into negative experiences. and that all depends on whether the host wants to use manners to be inclusive or not.