fn0rd5d ago
Tanith the Gay

Hey Fedi, I'm curious, where does the distinction between arcane n divine magic (i.e. mages and clerics) originate from? Was't DnD, or sth that predates it?

A lotta fantasy staples can be traced back'a Tolkien's works, but the wizards there all had religious significance (they were Maiar, effectively low-ranking angels), so I don't think the arcane/divine dichotomy was already present there (the magic was often less concrete n more mystical anyway). But a lotta modern fantasy works, notably DnD, various RPGs n RPG-inspired anime etc. have such a distinction. So, what was the first thing that introduced't?

#askfedi #fantasy #rpgs #dnd

(boosts welcome)

May 27 at 10:07amWeb
Show threadティージェーグレェ2d ago
Interesting question! Alas, I do not have an answer.

I have predominantly studied (albeit, formally though not to the level of ordination) Daoist and Buddhist magic (and mysticism) which is rather underrepresented in the West and probably entirely absent from DnD?

Admittedly, I never got deeply into DnD and my days of playing JPRGs more or less ceased after the SNES era (once upon a time I made some minor contributions to a ROM hack translation of one of the Famicom Final Fantasy games which hadn't yet received an official release domestically back then and was really into that series, but FFVII upset me to no end and I pretty much gave up on that franchise and everything related to it ever since).

There are some pop culture explorations of such themes, e.g. SpellCaster for the SEGA Master System and Mystic Defender for the SEGA Genesis, both derived from the manga 孔雀王「Kujaku Ō」"Peacock King" which essentially focus on a protagonist who is a Buddhist monk who specializes in exorcism and devil hunting. There are some live action films too (though I am less familiar with them).

Having written as much, such rites and rituals are often interwoven with religious traditions (there are religious sects of Daoism, also rather underrepresented in the west). Another pop culture reference that comes to mind in cinema in more recent years was the 2024 Korean film 파묘「Pamyo」(known in the USA as: Exhuma) which explores shamanism, burial rites and rituals, exorcism of a ghost, etc.

If you are into 武俠「wǔxiá」films, there are some pretty incredible CGI embellished scenes of such systems of magic in more recent years too.

So, that probably doesn't answer your question?

Regardless, such things, while often mystical and religious in nature, are completely removed from stage magic; and seem rather distinct from contemporary concepts of "chaos" magick. Though, in the latter in particular, I think there may be some overlapping reliance on egregores and sigils, within my limited understanding which seem to remind me a lot of some talisman methodologies from older mystical/religious traditions as well.