John BurnsMay 20

For all the programmers, developers, and related that are going through downsizing (of any kind)...

Be sure to collect contact info from others that you like and might want to work with.

Form a consulting company and be sure to make it known you are available - especially to make corrections to the code generated by LLM systems.

Billing should include the profit you want, plus the taxes you will have to pay (get an accountant) -- to include full amount of Soc. Security, and more.
🤔

Show threadAI6YR Ben
@JohnJBurnsIII Thanks for including that tip on the social security (also, unemployment insurance) taxes! When I first started working for myself that TOTALLY was not in my calculations. You have to definitely charge MORE per hour than you get paid as an employee to make the numbers connect. #selfemployment
May 20 at 7:44pmWeb
Show threadJohn BurnsMay 20

@ai6yr

Yes...
Not knowing about the "extras" is a hard lesson - and one that many make when they "hang out their shingle".

I fortunately worked for a time at a large accounting firm - so I soaked in a whole lot of grapevine knowledge.

--
Later, I was skipped over for some work - because I described fees and the folks asking were surprised.

One of wackiest was guy who wanted me to buy-in (like $40k) to a project to partner with them - to complete project. #UMM - NO.

Show threadAI6YR BenMay 20
@JohnJBurnsIII Oh, when you go independent, there are SO MANY proposals for you to do all the work for FREE for some unspecified percentage of company or for future payment "if the project succeeds" 😬 Not to mention the "oh can you throw in some dollars" proposals like you describe, lol.
Show threadJim HubbellMay 20
@ai6yr @JohnJBurnsIII
When Dad started working as a private forester, he got some excellent advice from his accountant. Much the same as what you describe. To cover all those costs, he had to charge about double what he wanted as his hourly rate.
Show threadJohn BurnsMay 20

@Dougfir @ai6yr

That's what I did when I started... but it turned out over the last 20ish years, that was not enough.

Today's world... that's the low end starting point.

Having a quality accountant and attorney are necessary for your own protection. Their fees are never lowballed - so that should be your example.

And insurance coverage is not cheap... and depending on your work - Liability is a requirement.

Show threadJim HubbellMay 20
@JohnJBurnsIII @ai6yr
Dad maintained his liability insurance to the day he died some 5 years after he retired.
Show threadLeslie BurnsMay 20

@JohnJBurnsIII @Dougfir @ai6yr

Louder for the folk in back.

I've been telling creatives these truths since the last century and long before I became an attorney. The old saying is true (re attys and CPAs): you can pay a little now or a whole lot later.

Show threadPaul_IPv6May 20

@LeslieBurns @JohnJBurnsIII @Dougfir @ai6yr

preach!

totally agree from personal bitter experience.

Show threadJens HannemannMay 20

@LeslieBurns @JohnJBurnsIII @Dougfir @ai6yr Very good advice. Reminds me of these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Gie-cdO__U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVkLVRt6c1U

F*ck You, Pay Me

YouTube
Show threadLeslie BurnsMay 20

@JensHannemann @JohnJBurnsIII @Dougfir @ai6yr

Yeah, I've posted Montero's video before. This is a good addition to it. Thanks!

Show threadJeri DanskyMay 21

@JensHannemann Ooh, thank you! I first listened to Mike's Fuck You, Pay Me talk thirteen years ago, and I still remembered his lawyer's name. I thought I'd just re-watch a few minutes, and instead I wound up watching the whole thing. Such a gem.

@LeslieBurns @JohnJBurnsIII @Dougfir @ai6yr

Show threadAethonMay 20

@LeslieBurns @JohnJBurnsIII @Dougfir @ai6yr

Agreed. For my calcs (UK creative and woodland worker but used to do technical consulting) I do a rule of 3. Third to me, third to the gov, third for professional business fees I’ll pay (accountant, legal, insurances etc). It looks big and when you start out it hurts to ask people for that much but it’s that or go broke, fast.

Given the current circumstances, I may need to go up to 4 times to cover everything and still keep food on the table!

Asking is hard, but I guess that’s another conversation.

Show threadShannon ClarkMay 20

@tempusfelix @LeslieBurns @JohnJBurnsIII @Dougfir @ai6yr a related "trick" I've always suggested to any group forming a consulting organization (really any type of group venture)

Count the org itself as an equal member.

So keeping the math simple if everyone bills out at the same amount you aim to cover all the taxes & expenses, the services for the org (accountants / lawyers), expenses etc, pay everyone but put aside an equal share that you pay out to everyone into the org as a reserve

Show threadShannon ClarkMay 20
@tempusfelix @LeslieBurns @JohnJBurnsIII @Dougfir @ai6yr it takes some tweaks to get this right - but once you do it means you start to build up a reserve in the org for the inevitable unexpected expenses or opportunities - and it keeps the math pretty simple and obvious. At the end of the financial year you can decide what to do with the reserves - but it will likely take a few years before you really know how big they need to be. But there will always be expenses you don't expect
Show threadLovesTha🥧May 20
@tempusfelix @LeslieBurns @JohnJBurnsIII @Dougfir @ai6yr the difference in x3 to x4 is that you needed to start with x1.3 to make up for the loss to inflation.
Show threadLeslie BurnsMay 20

@tempusfelix @JohnJBurnsIII @Dougfir @ai6yr

The trick to asking is not to ask. You're not asking, you're *stating* your price.

When you go to the grocery or get your electric bill, do you get asked to pay X or Y? Nope.

What is hard is stating your price and then shutting up. The urge to justify it or explain it is hard. Instead, remember, "It costs what it costs." 😁

Show threadLeslie BurnsMay 20

@tempusfelix @JohnJBurnsIII @Dougfir @ai6yr

Relatedly, all these calculations are internal. Don't share them with your clients.
None of their damn business.
All of your damn business.