Mastodawn

While onboarding is extremely easy, the real challenge is to find initial contacts or circles to chat with. There is no discovery and no central registry. Every new chat profile is private and nobody knows about it other than your contacts. So we are curious. What is the current number of chats (1:1 or group chats or channels) you have with #deltachat apps? Not contacts but chats you have read or wrote something into, in the last months.
If you are not using delta, please ignore this poll :)

below 5

62.6%

below 10

21.4%

below 30

11.2%

don't ask, too many

4.8%

Poll ended at May 21 at 7:33am.

Cyb3rrunn3r :verified::fckafd::coffee_mug:2d ago

@delta For ME one thing is Missing: "Below 2" oder "None - without myself". 😔
Same with Simplex. I have them installed - that's all.

Delta Chat 2d ago

@cyb3rrunn3r sure, feel free to just not answer or the below 5 option. We have indeed heard from people who use it only with themselves, multi device, for synchronized note keeping, file transfer, calendar etc, all end to end encrypted. And of course there are also many who don't use it at all, but this is not the topic of the poll. Could have made this clearer.

Cyb3rrunn3r :verified::fckafd::coffee_mug:2d ago

@delta For such usecases I use Nextcloud note Edit: or Apple Note.

sirjofri 2d ago

@delta
It's missing a "below 1" answer

Delta Chat 2d ago

@sirjofri indeed, we are just asking those who use it. There are billions of people who don't use it. We know that :)

sirjofri 2d ago

@delta
Haha, no. I mean, I use it, but I have no contacts I regularly chat with. I regularly check in though, and I use some of the apps every now and then.

Delta Chat 2d ago

@sirjofri chatting and interacting with oneself is maybe undervalued? :)

@dnlbrnds™2d ago

@delta having an account but no contacts is entirely possible @sirjofri

Serge Matveenko ♻️☮️ ⩜⃝2d ago

@delta
I don't think discovery (or the lack of it) is the reason.
I don't use discovery on other platforms anyway.
Well, people use discovery to find me by my phone number on Whatsapp but that's usually for one-time chats like delivery or booking confirmations.
The main platform I use for messaging friends and family is Telegram. And I have unknown contacts denied there.

Serge Matveenko ♻️☮️ ⩜⃝2d ago

@delta
I think, Delta lacks personal identity. Meaning a purpose, use case, that could be associated with Delta as the one that Delta fits the best.
The moment that identity is found the rest of development could focus on delivering maximum usability for that use case.
As for me, I use Delta as a safe family chat server on an isolated self-hosted instance. This is the only chat app allowed for my younger child on their phone.

@delta 100+ (and group chats make up half of it)

@gluek
How many members have the bigger group you have in DC? Is it slow or something? I am so curious about the "limit". I heard that there has to be some point when it starts to be disfunctional (it works perfectly for regular use, I know, love DC)
@delta

@mikelgs @delta 120 users, working just fine, but because of no moderation tools you need to be careful with invites

Nico Rikken 2d ago

@delta I've promoted it a few times at FOSS-events. With more delta-curious people we started a group chat then and there. It is growing organically by new people getting invited by current group members. It is also a branch-off point for one-to-one contacts.

scotty86 🇺🇦🕊️2d ago

@delta That's privacy by design. Love it.

If you want random ppl to contact you, feel free to publish an invitation link. 🤷

DC is my primary messaging solution with family, friends and other techie types.

I only require Apple iMessage and regular text for customers, and that's only appointments and the like.

Secure Email is used for more important things.

𝓒𝓱𝓻𝓲𝓼𝓽𝓸𝓯 𝓓𝓸𝓷𝓪𝓽 2d ago

To be precise: 1. But I get a lot of penis enlargement, and blue pills offers. Also requests to "verify" my address to receive packages, I'm not aware of.

The issue is, that most effective traditional e-Mail spam filters introduce delays, that many users deem unacceptable for a chat.

Delta Chat 2d ago

@cdonat are you using a classic email address or a chatmail relay? Chatmail relays don't allow unencrypted messages, which filters out spam completely. But a chatmail relay address will only be able to talk to Delta Chat users, not classic email users. Here you can pick one: https://chatmail.at/relays

Chatmail: Relays

Chatmail provides FOSS infrastructure for interoperable, secure, speedy and reliable end-to-end encrypted messaging. Check out clients as Arcane Chat, Bots or Delta Chat today!

𝓒𝓱𝓻𝓲𝓼𝓽𝓸𝓯 𝓓𝓸𝓷𝓪𝓽 2d ago

I'm using a normal email address. And for the time being it'll stay that way - for different reasons. Though it is a mail address, I exclusively use for Delta Chat.

If you are aware, what I could add to my procmail file, to also filter out non-encrypted messages, that would be a huge help.

DIGITAL PRIVACY 1d ago

@cdonat @delta
Instead of using the inbox you could use the DeltaChat folder - somewhere in the settings of the deltachat client.
Otherwise, you'll need to fight the spam with your email provider. Its not related to deltachat.

𝓒𝓱𝓻𝓲𝓼𝓽𝓸𝓯 𝓓𝓸𝓷𝓪𝓽 1d ago

@digitalprivacy @delta

How does the mail get into that DeltaChat folder? How does that get rid of the spam?

About where I'd have to change things: guess why I asked for any knowledge about the procmail file for DeltaChat. That is a standard way to tell a mail server, how to handle incoming mail.

Yes, that could also move mail to the DeltaChat-Folder, BTW. But it has to know which.

DIGITAL PRIVACY 1d ago

@cdonat @delta
Not sure if your provider allows it but you could add a sieve filter and move your specific emails to the deltachat folder automatically.

𝓒𝓱𝓻𝓲𝓼𝓽𝓸𝓯 𝓓𝓸𝓷𝓪𝓽 1d ago

@digitalprivacy @delta

And how do I detect non-Spam messages. That is the question.

DIGITAL PRIVACY 1d ago

@cdonat @delta
Do you use delta chat as your email client?

It sounds like you get a lot of spam and your email provider can't handle it. Might be better to use another email provider. It's also good to change your email address every now and then.

But to answer your question, you'll need to adjust the sieve filter yourself. Whatever most wording you have in your spam mails you create/adjust your sieve filter.

𝓒𝓱𝓻𝓲𝓼𝓽𝓸𝓯 𝓓𝓸𝓷𝓪𝓽 1d ago

@digitalprivacy @delta

No, I don't use DeltaChat as my email client. In my normal mail-account I have quite some spam filtering active, but that adds latency, that generally isn't accepted in a chat by my communication partners.

I have an email-address, that is exclusively used for DeltaChat. I partially own my email provider, and therefore won't use a different one.

And the real question, you didn't answer again: how do I distinguish valid DeltaChat messages from spam?

1/2

𝓒𝓱𝓻𝓲𝓼𝓽𝓸𝓯 𝓓𝓸𝓷𝓪𝓽 1d ago

@digitalprivacy @delta

Before @delta responded, that a Chatmail-server only forwards encrypted messages.

So it is possible to detect valid DeltaChat messages by looking for encryption with relative ease. Therefore it should as well be possible to implement that with procmail, or sieve.

My only question is how to do that detection. As soon as I have that, I can adapt the procmail file myself.

Alas you're just adding useless noise. I get, that you''re trying to help.

2/2

Delta Chat 1d ago

@cdonat @digitalprivacy chatmail relays use this small rust program to filter out unencrypted messages: github.com/chatmail/filtermail
you can hook it into postfix like this: https://github.com/chatmail/relay/blob/main/cmdeploy/src/cmdeploy/postfix/master.cf.j2

relay/cmdeploy/src/cmdeploy/postfix/master.cf.j2 at main · chatmail/relay

chatmail service deployment scripts and docs . Contribute to chatmail/relay development by creating an account on GitHub.

GitHub

𝓒𝓱𝓻𝓲𝓼𝓽𝓸𝓯 𝓓𝓸𝓷𝓪𝓽 1d ago

@delta @digitalprivacy

That's perfect. Exactly, what I was looking for, thank you very much.

Doclomieu 2d ago

@delta Usually three, but those are the friends I’ve managed to persuade to use Delta Chat. I’d like to use it more, but for now I have to make do with just a few chats.

@delta
I use it also for reading some RSS-Feeds and for receiving some Status-Mails (unencrypted)

What do you use for RSS feeds? A public bot I guess?

@mikelgs
Yes,
it's called FeedsBot

Amin Girasol 2d ago

@delta three active in the last month; four inactive longer than that.

Contrast with eight active in the last month on Telegram, 39 inactive longer than that. But many of those inactive ones are people I never need to speak to again, yet they linger around.

@delta I have so far found that just getting people to try ("I don't want to install another app") is my hurdle - even the tech friends. People have IM exhaustion (and have for years, Signal fought the same problem forever, still does). When you have to convince your nerd friends to even try, it's exhausting. I don't have a great answer. 😕

Kᑐᑌᑐᕮ 2d ago

@delta to be honest, i mainly stopped using it as my main because Signal is just easier to use;
Like marking messages as “read” from Apple Watch, or replying with 👍🏼…

Christian Thäter 2d ago

@delta The important point here is that #deltachat is a private messenger, not a public messenger and not a social network. Others fill that role already. Discoverability should stay in the hands of each individual user. That saied, it would be nice to have some kind of WoT so that one can announce his delta contact publicly and only people for whom a trust relationship can be established pass a pre-check for a contact request, so no spam should become possible.

@cehteh @delta
I tried Threema. The telephone number is optional. Most of them, including me, give them to be found.
If there was such a thing for DeltaChat, it would certainly be optional and tied to just one profile. Contacts that have been verified should then be able to move another profile.

jd 🌍🇪🇺🇭🇺🚀 & 👍🇺🇦🇵🇸+🇮🇷🇨🇺1d ago

'not a social network'

let's just call it an anti-social network, ok?

smalldog club ☑️2d ago

@delta right now it's just me and the family plus one other. I'm totally OK with that. Maybe later on some others. I know when a message comes in on Delta to pay attention.

Your Cunting Daughter 🧟‍♂️🤮2d ago

@delta just one person, currently.

@delta
I think the lack of a way to find contacts is both an advantage and a disadvantage. It’s an advantage for privacy-conscious users, but a disadvantage for regular users. Ideally, there could be away to balance the two. I realize that DC currently uses a cryptographic identity, but perhaps it would make sense to use a regular email address as a sort of bootstrap? You could call it an optional anchor identity. The question would be how to implement this as smoothly as possible. In that context, it would be interesting to know how many users actually have their contacts’ email addresses in the system contacts app.

what the sigma 15h ago

@delta more group chats!!!

@delta I believe a more friendly Ul and better UX would help :)