elizabeth wormπ
is ptn going to make ghislane maxwell a playable character 
=^w^=
elle
Gato de muchos frijoles 
@vantiss @jake2 @patchuun note that i am well aware of the fact that torture's efficacy is extremely poor. the usual factors dont apply to her as shes already been proven guilty beyond all reasonable doubt and has indicated that she can testify against them but will only do so in exchange for a pardon. that pardon mustnt happen and prior interrogation was fruitless making this the last resort
smoking ππ£π¦πΎπ with 'ilu@jake2 @patchuun @vantiss death penalty i ultimately agree with as it makes no practical difference against life without parole aside from like extremely negligible cost savings and *checks notes* preventing falsely convicted people from waiting for exhonorating evidence or political shifts before making their appeals, which is a downside actually
@jake2 @patchuun @vantiss god i want to be a bitch so bad right now
we are talking about the largest known child slavery ring in history. if i tortured everything she knows out of her and then killed her anyway, her crimes would still outweigh my own. the only argument against this in my eyes is a pragmatic one about state power and not a moral one
we are talking about the largest known child slavery ring in history. if i tortured everything she knows out of her and then killed her anyway, her crimes would still outweigh my own. the only argument against this in my eyes is a pragmatic one about state power and not a moral one
Trans Icon Rachel, Feminist@YKantRachelRead @jake2 @patchuun @vantiss i specifically avoided saying that outside of a hypothetical comparing our relative inhumanities in that scenario. as i stated earlier id even be ok with letting her die a free woman eventually but the co-conspirators need to be brought to light and the threat of torture is a valid tool to do so given that she is 100% guilty and 100% knows more than she has revealed (and is using that as a bargaining tool for a pardon which is the least desirable outcome of all
@coolbean @jake2 @patchuun @vantiss okay I was just sitting here thinking that a normal person offering a compassionate and measured response to the existence of a mass child grooming and sexual assault ring might have as their first priority, say, "make sure all the victims are safe and given the resources they need to heal," but your alternative approach of "torture the shit out of the perpetrators until they name everyone involved" sure is um, novel? thinking-outside-the-box? (help me out here folks I'm struggling)
@YKantRachelRead @coolbean @jake2 @vantiss it's not novel, unfortunately; it's a quite ancient and in-the-box idea of justice really
@patchuun @YKantRachelRead @jake2 @vantiss i do not believe in punitive justice, i do not believe in state powers, i do believe that it is every person's right to know not only who was involved but also the full extent of their crimes and thats not happening without her cooperation. trump should not pardon her because he and his friends are implicated giving her strong fucking reason to leave them out fearing further repercussions if she doesnt
under trump a truthful testimony cannot be assured in any case, so i demand she lower her fucking standards cause an incomplete testimony is not worth a full pardon. a chance at parole at best
under trump a truthful testimony cannot be assured in any case, so i demand she lower her fucking standards cause an incomplete testimony is not worth a full pardon. a chance at parole at best
@patchuun @YKantRachelRead @jake2 @vantiss which i think thats my full thought process behind my at times contradictory statements so far. morally she deserves to rot in hell, pragmatically she deserves a chance at freedom down the line for an incomplete pardon by a compromised president and in a utopia she can go in exchange for a full testimony and pinky promising not to enslave children anymore
@coolbean @YKantRachelRead @jake2 @vantiss Admittedly I'm also kind of just skeptical her testimony would make a difference under any president, not just Trump. It's not like everybody isnt already well aware he's guilty too. We've already got plenty of smoking guns to work with from the emails and not much has changed; everyone in power is already blatantly complicit. Consequently I don't think any of them can be trusted to bring anyone else in power to justice, and I don't think torturing jizzlane into squealing would change that