Mastodawn

Stephen Webb May 14

Jon S. von Tetzchner

In April 1994 I started working on the Opera browser with Geir Iversøy, my co-founder. I worked at Opera for 17 years, leaving it after disagreeing with investors about the way forward. Two years later I co-founded @Vivaldi with Tatsuki Tomita and Anne Stavnes. This was in 2013.

For more than 30 years we have provided alternatives to Big Tech. First with Opera and now with Vivaldi. The focus has always been quite different from our competitors. More features, more privacy, more flexibility. Lately it has also meant the choice to avoid things like Crypto and Blockchain, avoid integrating AI and avoid integrating surveillance. This is not given. Most of our competitors are building in one or more of the above.

If you like what we are doing and our stand, feel free to download Vivaldi. If you are already with us, please tell your friends.

#Vivaldi #EU #Europa #Technology #Browser #Windows #Macos #Linux #Android #IOS #Automotive #Computer

Tane Piper ⁂May 14

@jon @Vivaldi I've stuck with Arc for a while - but noticing it's lack of continuous development. Might be time to switch

Daniel Prindii May 14

@tanepiper @jon @Vivaldi The Arc team created another browser, Dia. Not sure if they will add features to Arc.

Halminchurst May 14

@klausblog @tanepiper

I believe The Browser Company has ceased feature development on Arc, with only security and bug-fixing updates going forward

https://oviyabalan.medium.com/tldr-arc-browsers-future-3d392cc91172

In short, as someone who once waited for Arc eagerly, for them to pull the plug near-immediately in favour of "AI" bullshit is a smack in the face

TLDR — Arc Browser’s Future

The Browser Company is sunsetting active development on Arc and shifting focus to a new product: Dia, an AI-native browser.

Medium

Ketakater May 14

@jon @Vivaldi Is it really an alternative to Big Tech when it relies on the Google chrome codebase? That's the main criticism I get from friends, when I want to recommend vivaldi

@Ketakater @jon @Vivaldi Not exactly: they take the Chromium codebase and pull out all the tracking and other nasty code parts from it (as far as it is possible without making it break), before they add their own code.

Ketakater May 14

@TritTriton @jon @Vivaldi but that relies on Google's permission to do that, right?

What if they pull the plug?

WildEnte May 14

@Ketakater @TritTriton @jon @Vivaldi if Google pulled the plug, then the US antitrust (cartel) office would immediately break up the monopoly. Chromium being open is Google's way of being allowed to totally dominate the browser market share

Ketakater May 14

@WildEnte @TritTriton @jon @Vivaldi I see. Thing is, I'm not sure how reliable US institutions will be going forward.

WildEnte May 14

@Ketakater @TritTriton @jon @Vivaldi (too) powerful corporations are a threat to any government. I'm not worried about that part

Ketakater May 14

@WildEnte only as long as there is an actual gouvernment

WildEnte May 14

@Ketakater the choice of browsers is really not the biggest issue in that scenario

Ketakater May 14

@WildEnte not in the US, no

@WildEnte @Ketakater @TritTriton @jon @Vivaldi the state and corporations are one and the same in a fascist state. Which is the current reality of things, or near indistinguishably close.

Jon S. von Tetzchner May 14

@Ketakater @Vivaldi

Here is the point. Unlike most that have an opinion on this, I have actually built a browser from scratch. Did that with Opera. Realistically we could not do that today. Would require too much resources and take too long. Then we would have to deal with compatibility issues.

There are really only two other alternatives when it comes to code. Use Webkit or Gecko. That would be a larger risk and we would not be any less reliant on Apple or Google.

The way for us to have the most impact is to continue to build based on Chromium. Over time we will be able to have a bigger impact as well.

Ketakater May 14

@jon @Vivaldi appreciate you taking the time to explain 🙏

I personally like Vivaldi. It's my main browser for a few years and I love your engagement for a free and accessible Internet

Rihards Olups May 14

@jon @Ketakater @Vivaldi Thank you for the reply, appreciated.
While Mozilla's funding is rather non-diverse, wouldn't Gecko still be a notably smaller reliance (more like dependence) on Google?

Jon S. von Tetzchner May 14

@richlv @Ketakater @Vivaldi

I would say that the reliance is just different.

For us we are trying to do the best we can. We evaluated the options available to us and we found Chromium to be the best one for us, where we can make the most difference over time. It was not an easy decision and I would have preferred for us to have our own codebase written from scratch, but that is just not realistic. Every other codebase we had to choose between had risks and we felt Chromium was the least risky, base d on our own experience of writing the code from scratch and our experience competing in the browser market.

@jon @Ketakater @Vivaldi the problem with that choice is that when Google developers decide something isn't needed anymore, or shouldn't be supported in the first place (e.g., XSLT, JPEG XL) you are essentially forced to follow through with their decisions. That doesn't really help you make an impact.

Jon S. von Tetzchner May 15

@oblomov @Ketakater @Vivaldi

It would not matter if we had our own code really. If we support a format that nobody else supports, it is not really helpful. Sites do not use stuff that the main browsers do not support. That is just how things work.

If there is something that Google adds or removes that we think is important to do differently we do. We spend a lot of time on that. Right now we are spending plenty of time keeping Gemini out of Vivaldi, as an example. We also remove a lot of other stuff and we add our own stuff, such as ad and tracker blockers and a lot more.

The most important thing for us is to grow. More people using Vivaldi means we have more power to influence where the Web heads. IMHO that is a good thing.

@jon @Ketakater @Vivaldi it's a bit of a chicken-and-egg problem though. JPEG XL for example is starting to see some traction thanks to Apple decided to support it anyway and the availability of extensions for Chrome and Firefox to handle it, and now Firefox is finally looking into adding it in main (not just in nightly behind a default-off flag).

Also, since you don't report Vivaldi as such anymore IIRC, how are you going to show that more people are indeed using it?

missingno May 16

@jon @Vivaldi I still would like to have an option to identify the browser as Vivaldi and not another Mozilla-yadda-yadda-Chrome-Safari.

tribactam May 14

@jon @Vivaldi I stumbled across Opera a few years ago and liked it. I came across Vivaldi last year and like it even more - particularly the social part, although I'm really just beginning to learn my way around. Great work! Thanks for what you do!

Twotired May 14

@jon @Vivaldi Unfortunately Vivaldi won’t run on an older IOS device.

Twotired May 14

@jon @Vivaldi At least what’s available on the App Store won’t.

Halminchurst May 14

@jon Happy to see this the first thing after I install Vivaldi. I'll see what good Vivaldi brings.

Paul Kuyper 🇺🇸May 14

@jon @Vivaldi I’ve been using Vivaldi as my default browser on my iPhone for a few months now. At this point, whenever I tap on Safari by mistake I realize that I like Vivaldi better.

@jon @Vivaldi would you consider a musl based codebase or producing musl patches?

@jon @Vivaldi have been using vivaldi for a few months now as part of a general move away from google etc and it’s been great so far!

@jon @Vivaldi Thanks so much for this amazing browser — the first one I've ever actually loved using!

Sebastian May 15

@jon @Vivaldi On your website, I find only a *.deb to download. Do you also offer a Debian repository or flatpak?

Note: Snap is the reason I don't use Ubuntu any more. I'm not interested in Snap.

Sebastian May 15

@jon @Vivaldi If you're serious about avoiding AI, you should provide a flatpak instead of a snap.

Ubuntu just announced, it will enforce so-called "AI" on its users.

Jon S. von Tetzchner May 15

@sebastian @Vivaldi

Our goal is to to support Linux in the best way we can. This means we support Snap, DEB and RPM packages at this time. We even have made a Flatpak, but it is still unofficial as we need the Flatpak team to work with us on some issues before we can make it official.

Sebastian May 15

@jon @Vivaldi Thanks! I'll wait for the flatpak, because I don't want to do my own updates.

@sebastian @jon @Vivaldi

No need to wait - install the .deb/.rpm package and the update repos will be configured automagically.

https://help.vivaldi.com/desktop/install-update/manual-setup-vivaldi-linux-repositories/

Also, to check the downloaded package signature, see here: https://help.vivaldi.com/desktop/install-update/obtaining-official-builds/

Manual setup of the Vivaldi Linux repositories | Vivaldi Browser Help

If you wish you can pre-configure Vivaldi Linux repositories first and install Vivaldi from there. The following is a quick guide.

Vivaldi Browser Help

Sebastian May 16

@hrx @jon @Vivaldi This is a game-changer. The *.deb installs /etc/apt/sources.list.d/vivaldi.list and that's what I was looking for. 👍

Sebastian May 16

@hrx @jon @Vivaldi First feedback: I prefer not to have anything from Google, Microsoft, Apple, Amazon, or any other criminal and abusive organisation on my machine. It's understandable, you need sponsors, but Amazon? Really?

Something else: How does this mafia logo pop up, when I am not using Chrome and I already have set Qwant as default?

@sebastian @missingno

It is easy to delete the supplied bookmarks and search engines. Amazon - yeah, same here

Regarding browser detection, there is a long history around the user agent header:

https://vivaldi.com/blog/technology/client-hints-or-client-lies/

https://humanwhocodes.com/blog/2010/01/12/history-of-the-user-agent-string/

Vivaldi, by default, identifies as Google Chrome for website compatibility reasons.

If you want to change the user agent, you can do it without adding third party extensions - see here:

https://help.vivaldi.com/desktop/miscellaneous/user-agent-brand-masking/

EDIT: UA correction - see post below

Client hints or client lies? | Vivaldi Browser

For decades, the User Agent header has been a major arena for truths, lies and other dastardly deeds. Now there’s an effort to replace the User Agent with “Client Hints”. How will that go?

Vivaldi Browser

Sebastian May 16

@hrx @missingno We still feel the after-effects of the "browser-war" from the late nineties and the abusive behaviour of Apple and Microsoft regarding browser-freedom, right?

I will continue probing Vivaldi. It's highly customisable, so perhaps I can make it mine.

However, I do think @Vivaldi could consider choosing its sponsors a bit more consciously. Also: before you provide an image search where the choice is between Google or Bing, it's better to provide no image search at all.

Vivaldi Browser May 18

@sebastian thanks for your feedback ❤️

missingno May 16

@hrx According to this (https://social.vivaldi.net/@TechieNotNetie/116402568097737684 and the setting's description) you should not touch that setting unless doing some debugging. Also it doesn't work; at least not for me or the normal UA string I get.

TechieNotNetie May 16

@missingno @hrx The Client Hints Branding setting DOES NOT change the User Agent header, only the Client Hints Brands header.

@TechieNotNetie @missingno

Thank you, I stand corrected.

Must have misremembered the effects when I changed that setting a couple months ago while investigating problems with additional reCAPTCHA verification at my parents' house - a combination of mobile network Internet access, CGNAT and Firefox was throwing requests for additional verification while accesing Google and Youtube.

Chromium based browsers were unaffected, and the problem cleared up in a few weeks.

@hrx Interesting enough installing the RPM on Fedora didn't add the necessary repos - had to do that step manually. Maybe that misbehaviour already changed, I've installed Vivaldi some months ago (guess somewhere in 2025).
@sebastian @jon @Vivaldi

@Sebastian, there is one: the postinst script in the .deb will automatically add the repository (and the signing key) for you.

The names of the files added by that script depend on exactly which build you're using, but will look like /etc/apt/sources.list/vivaldi*.list and /usr/share/keyrings/vivaldi*.gpg.

(I found it surprising that it does this. It's something which should be done by local admin or by a tool such as extrepo, though it is definitely useful as an automatic update mechanism should the details change.)

@jon @Vivaldi, have you considered extrepo for handling adding/removing the repository info?

ocelot221 May 15

@jon @Vivaldi In the future, when Servo is mature enough, would you consider switching strategy and build a Servo-based Vivaldi as opposed to a Chromium one?

Jon S. von Tetzchner May 15

@ocelot221 @Vivaldi

I think that is unlikely. Having built a browser from scratch, I do not see it as likely that a small project can be competitive enough. I would love to be wrong on that one, but we cannot bet the company on something like that.

Wouter 🛰️May 15

@jon @Vivaldi I've been with you a few years now and haven't looked back a single time. Okay, maybe one time. to FireFox.

Promoting the hell out of Vivaldi. I might need to get myself some stickers

THANK YOU

Vivaldi Browser May 18

@pa3weg you're welcome to join our team of volunteer ambassadors! :) You can send us an email at [email protected]

Denis Brækhus May 15

@jon @Vivaldi @aslakr Much love for all your work through the years!

As many others I would love if Vivaldi didn’t rely on Chromium. I see the lack of diversity in browser engines as a critical issue. Which is why I use Zen (FF engine based).

Don’t love Mozilla, but it’s the only real engine alternative to Chromium? I fear the world where Chromium is without any competition.

Seán na bhFritíortha May 31

Not really practical for me because of the limited spell-checking.