Mastodawn

RE: https://mas.to/@wifsten/116035756091298221

What a fascinating story. It suggests that there is a correlation between the closures of bars-tabac (coffee shop/tobacco shop) and the rise of right-wing party sentiment in rural communities, and that party support can be reversed by reopening bars-tabac.

This suggests that social/communal spaces reduce hateful programming. Maybe people who are lonely tend to feel disempowered and left behind, and thus are more susceptible to messages that blame some out-group for the way they feel.

Tyrone Slothrop 1d ago

@drahardja “drinking for democracy”

the elder sea 1d ago

@slothrop @drahardja
Pints for the people!

the elder sea 1d ago

@slothrop @drahardja
Liters for the labourers!

the elder sea 1d ago

@slothrop @drahardja

Rubbish for the righties!

Ryan Quinn 21h ago

@slothrop I like your thinking. I’m going to go out and responsibly spread some democracy tonight. 🙂

Ryan Boswell 🏳️‍🌈23h ago

@drahardjaI I wonder how well that translates to the US, and if there’s a similar phenomenon for areas that may never have had a density of social/communal spaces like rural and suburban communities that in the US often tend towards right-wing parties. Though religious communal spaces would seem to be the exception there.

Magnus Ahltorp 21h ago

@ryanboswell The car is a vehicle (pun intended) for isolation.

Raven667 20h ago

@ahltorp @ryanboswell not only the development of isolated single family home suburbs but the mechanization of farm labor hollowed out all the little rural towns, leaving just owner/operators and marginalized immigrant labor

Forest Fern 18h ago

@raven667 @ahltorp @ryanboswell

Exactly -- suburb developments eliminated town squares, city parks where people assembled. These squares were vital for social & cultural exchanges, civic activities, soapboxing, etc..

Magnus Ahltorp 14h ago

@forestfern @raven667 @ryanboswell The car certainly is used to, and leads to, indirectly building isolated societies, but I also meant isolation in a very literal sense: the car is built to shield the users from the environment, using elements such as relative invulnerability, sound-proofing and alienation.

There are exceptions, but generally when people get into a car, they cease to have any meaningful interaction with the world around them, and the people outside become dehumanised.

@ryanboswell I think it’d be interesting to compare the death of malls against the rise in online shopping and political polarization.

The death of rural areas is such an issue that I don’t know that the loss of a specific kind of shop/3rd space would say anything specific, but perhaps one could look at the change in voting habits relative to the variety/amount of options in rural areas?

Irenes (many)23h ago

@drahardja we like your takeaway

betabug... Sascha Welter 22h ago

@drahardja A while ago there was an article in the german newspaper TAZ that the right-wing is reopening local pubs in eastern germany.

groff 🇺🇦22h ago

@drahardja When the pub shuts people spend their time on social media run by right wing tech bros. Surprised no-one is.

potion_genderqueer

@catileptic, what was that about building community and fighting fascism? Looks like it works. ...

jollyrogue 21h ago

@drahardja It’s a problem of 3rd spaces disappearing and the monetization of everything. There aren’t many places left where people can go hangout without expectations of spending money.

Yeah, I know bars are selling drinks.

AssertionError("Joe Groff")21h ago

@drahardja puts the long moral panic about bars and drinking across US history in perspective too

Guillotine Jones, Flâneur 21h ago

@drahardja
Bars-tabac (coffee shop/tobacco shop) and pubs 4 Democracy!
Bong hits 4 Jesus.

Grassroots Joe 19h ago

“The erosion of social ties is not irreversible,” he writes. “Public policies aimed at preserving or recreating places for socialising can have a lasting impact on electoral trends.”

Chitchat 16h ago

Building community is resistance!

AI driven micro-targeting only works on the internet.

@drahardja
"Take the skinheads bowling"

@drahardja
Most of the bar tabac where I've been to were extremely racist places so... I'm not gonna regret them.

@bohwaz @drahardja I’m not confident this study is right, but…

On one hand like you say, lots of bar-tabacs probably have racists regulars, but at least it prevented some people to only have a unique flow of information.

No socializing place in the countryside leads to people being fed fascism through their TV sat, without any gardrail.

(I saw it myself when hiking in the Massif Central.)

Siderea, Sibylla Bostoniensis 8h ago

@drahardja
>This suggests that social/communal spaces reduce hateful programming.

Possibly. But it seems more likely that the economic pressures that result in small hospitality industry businesses closing by, say, reducing customers' discretionary income and/or raising retail rents are the same ones that lead right-inclined people to be more open to radicalization.

Also, the people who operate such establishments are 1) small business owners and 2) voters. In the US, small business owners lean to the right for reasons Marx described. If a whole lot of people who own tabacs were already right-leaning due to being employers, nothing about them getting driven out of business is going to make them *less* right wing.

Dave Rahardja 3h ago

@siderea I don’t think the idea in the article and your idea are necessarily exclusive, right? I think it’s plausible that isolation can drive people into conspiracy spirals, which is often used by right-wing politicos to gain voters, and that economic pressures can lead to isolation.

kamstrup 7h ago

@drahardja I wonder how to reopen those institutions? In Denmark rural communities are in hard decline, and right wing support in those areas (and everywhere) rising.

Years of centralization, undermining public transport, closing rural schools and hospitals etc. Couple that with huge windfalls for those who buy property in the cities, and net loss for most who buy in rural areas.

These small, but important, institutions can no longer sustain themselves. I dearly wish it was easy to reverse ♥️

Dave Rahardja 3h ago

@kamstrup I think a generous universal basic income program solves a ton of these issues, and more.

The drive into cities is largely driven by economic opportunity, isn’t it? While some people love living in urban areas (me), others are there because of a job, and once there, they don’t leave until they retire, because the city is where all the jobs are.

With less pressure to work, people can live in the environment they like, and companies are incentivized to extend remote work opportunities to get better candidates.

Madeleine Morris 3h ago

@drahardja A lot of pubs are closing in the UK as well.

And I can see exactly why people who used to spout off their narrow minded, racist positions and used to just infect a few people in a room have now moved onto the internet to infect millions.