I do not like the new surreal fascism. It's not cute. It's not ironic. I thought part of the whole appeal of authoritarianism was the consistency, the lack of complexity, the comfort of a world brutally sorted into little metal boxes.

But, you're not going to get any of that with these guys.

I guess the fear is still there. "The Pope is Weak on Crime" no one knows what this means, but also everyone gets it.

@futurebird

I mean. On the whole, Jesus was "weak on crime".

If you think about it. 🤔

He was not very into the whole punitive model of justice.

@TerryHancock @futurebird He kinda invented Hell.

@michaelgemar @futurebird

Hmm. Did he though..?

@TerryHancock @futurebird Pretty much. He talks a lot about hell as a place of punishment, which (as I understand it) was not really a feature of the Jewish afterlife.

And the notion of eternal conscious torment is really fucked up.

@michaelgemar @TerryHancock @futurebird If we acknowledge the Gospels were written by humans who mostly did not meet Jesus they're really about what the writers think Jesus said/should have said.
@InkySchwartz @TerryHancock @futurebird That’s certainly a fair point (although then I’m not sure how we can tell anything about the historical Jesus).

@michaelgemar
True. There are even those who have made the case that Jesus was entirely fictitious. There are no real contemporaneous references to him, outside of Christian sources, so it's possible.

Of course, the ancient world was not so documented as today. There are many people and events with limited references. I am personally of the opinion that he existed, but that the gospel exaggerated his impact. Which seems consistent with religious leaders and followers, generally.

But it clearly is the case that the Gospels are essentially propaganda documents created many years after, with agendas set by their authors.

So analysis of what Jesus said, is best understood as literary criticism of a character, as represented, rather than analysis of any real person the character may be based on. It's mythology or mytho-history at best.

I am most struck, though, by the many times that Jesus tempered punitive behavior, forgave sins, encouraged rehabilitation, understanding, acceptance, etc. This seems contrary to the punitive mindset of conservatives to me.

@InkySchwartz @futurebird

@TerryHancock @michaelgemar @futurebird As an Athiest I have pondered the mythic Jesus idea and found some actual evidence for him. The Roman Tacticus: https://historyforatheists.com/2017/09/jesus-mythicism-1-the-tacitus-reference-to-jesus/

And a Jew Yosef ben Matityahu https://historyforatheists.com/2020/10/josephus-jesus-and-the-testimonium-flavianum/

Neither source is perfect but they exist.

Jesus Mythicism 1: The Tacitus Reference to Jesus - History for Atheists

Publius Cornelius Tacitus was one of the most reliable of all Roman historians and many first century figures are known to us solely through his mention of them. This means his passing reference to Jesus in Annals XV.44 remains an fly in the ointment of the Jesus Myth hypothesis. Despite Tacitus’ reliability and the scholarly agreement that the reference is genuine, Mythicist ideologues have several ways by which they try to dismiss this reference; all of them characteristically weak. The... Read More Read More

History for Atheists