myrmepropagandist1d ago

RE: https://mastodon.social/@arstechnica/116397070356098122

In an ideal world courses would have pass/fail grades if they have grades at all. Grades get in the way of learning. (Students turn to LLMs to save their grades.)

So, I think part of this tension goes back to what we grade and why.

I'm lucky that in math I only ever assign grades for in-class tests.

In my CS classes I lean a lot on sharing student work. Fortunately my students like to show off for each other. They are excited to see what I and their peers think of their projects.

Show threadmyrmepropagandist1d ago

Teacher feedback is precious. It takes time to read and write comments and provide guidance. Doing that kind of work on LLM slop is depressing. The teacher could have been writing feedback for a student who did the work and might learn from it.

How can the way we present this feedback emphisize its value?

What about "you may submit 3 essays per term for feedback" the feedback isn't a grade, it's just comments to help you when you write the final essay in class without an LLM?

Show threadmyrmepropagandist1d ago
When I was in school I always wished my teachers would write more comments on my essays. I just wanted someone to read them and be impressed. I don't think that's changed.
Show threadmyrmepropagandist1d ago

Feedback is also a limited resource and students don't understand this since they think teachers have infinite time.

Maybe the way that it's presented needs to make it more clear that this is something of value, not a punishment... which is how younger kids can see it.

eg. "Decide what you want me to read, I only have time to do this two times."

I think fewer students would give LLM content in that context.

It is, frankly, rude to give someone a bunch of LLM text to read.

Show threadmyrmepropagandist1d ago

I had a 6th grade student who I asked to design a pattern to print on the laser cutter. She was excited to get feedback and use the laser cutter.

Her pattern was rushed and ... just not very good. So, I asked her to re-draft it with more care. This was a big ask. In 6th grade that's a new skill.

"Why didn't you write more feedback?"

"I'm not spending more time on feedback than you did drafting. Slow down."

She got it eventually, but there is more work to be done there.

Show threadJencel Panic1d ago
@futurebird true, unfortunately our whole society works with grades and punishments. Even at work we are asked to grade our colleagues
Show threadPatrick Lam 
@abuseofnotation @futurebird pass/fail as mentioned elsewhere in this thread is something that I believe in as well. Unfortunately I have to give more detailed grades than that.
Apr 13 at 12:17pmWeb
Show threadmyrmepropagandist1d ago

@va2lam @abuseofnotation

I'm. in the same boat. Either the kid learned algebra and will be fine next year learning more math... or not. And the later is rare.

It feels kind of unfair to send them all along with different grades that end up being used for all kinds of things that have nothing to do with what courses they need to take.