GrapheneOS/e/ and Murena have been been promoting their products by misleading people about GrapheneOS for years. This has turned into an all out war on GrapheneOS by their company and supporters. We began regularly debunking their inaccurate claims and they try to frame it as aggression.
They've created widespread misconceptions about the GrapheneOS project with inaccurate claims about the purpose of the project and what it provides to users. Many people incorrectly believe they aren't our target audience or that it wouldn't be a good fit for them due to this.
GrapheneOS is a privacy project which is intended to be usable by everyone. Usability and app compatibility are top priorities. Our userbase largely isn't highly technical. It's very easy to install and use. Devices can be purchased around the world with GrapheneOS preinstalled.
There's a comparison between operating systems based on the Android Open Source Project at https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm which provides a good overview of how GrapheneOS compares to other options. GrapheneOS is clearly a privacy project and is a major innovator in privacy protections.
GrapheneOS has an extremely high level of app compatibility. Nearly every Android app can be used on it which is crucial for broad usability. A tiny subset of Android apps banning using an alternate OS which we haven't yet worked around or convinced to allow it are incompatible.
Our primary focus is improving the usability and out-of-the-box experience of GrapheneOS. We're continuing to add own privacy and security focused implementations of functionality normally provided by Google apps/services. The user-facing apps are being overhauled and replaced.
We already shipped our own network-based location and geocoding implementations which we'll be making more discoverable. Our high quality local text-to-speech implementation is shipping soon and we'll also be providing a local speech-to-text implementation. A lot more is coming.
/e/ bundles many privacy invasive apps/services. That includes adding a bunch of Google services not present in AOSP with privileged access. They implement speech-to-text by sending user data to OpenAI without informing users about it. We cannot do that.
Providing users with privacy requires ongoing work to address privacy vulnerabilities. GrapheneOS keeps up with the standard Android privacy patches. We also fix many Android privacy issues ourselves including VPN leaks. We're actively working on fixing remaining VPN issues.
Privacy heavily depends on security. Security vulnerabilities are widely exploited to obtain user data. State actors aren't the only ones exploiting vulnerabilities and it's not at all limited to targeted attacks. Privacy depends on fixing both privacy and security flaws.
Commercially developed exploits are widely deployed against users both online and in the physical world. Broadly using exploits against many people at a protest, crossing a border or visiting a high traffic website is not a small scale targeted attack. This is not going away.
/e/ and Murena have repeatedly repeated attacks by authoritarians on privacy technology by claiming without basis that GrapheneOS is mainly useful to criminals and used by criminals. They're claiming it about hardening against vulnerabilities in general:
These inaccurate talking points used by /e/ and Murena to mislead people about the purpose of GrapheneOS, what it provides and who uses it are heavily propagated by their supporters to harm GrapheneOS in podcasts, blog posts, forums, social media and elsewhere. It's pervasive.
/e/ and Murena are based in France. Recently, France's national law enforcement has been smearing GrapheneOS, Signal and other privacy projects. They've heavily pushed the same false narrative as /e/ and Murena claiming GrapheneOS primarily benefits and is used by criminals.
Both state and corporate media in France repeated inaccurate claims from their nationa law enforcement without questioning it. They presented false claims about the features, distribution, marketing and userbase. They conflated it with sketchy products which aren't GrapheneOS.
/e/ and Murena are aligning themselves with these false narratives about genuine privacy and security projects. Their supporters are also aligning themselves with this. Their concept of privacy is control and surveillance by EU corporations and governments instead of the US.
Podcast Projets Libres heavily promotes /e/ and Murena. They've consistently misrepresented the GrapheneOS project to promote those. Our corrections have consistently been ignored. They recently published an episode heavily pushing many of these false narratives about GrapheneOS.
The /e/ enthusiast interviewed in the podcast replied twice to our thread from 4 days earlier addressing Duval's claims about hardening being for pedophiles and GrapheneOS somehow not being a privacy project. This is exactly the narrative which was heavily pushed in the episode.
After our response to their post promoted the podcast episode was once again ignored, we posted https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/116380872236123594 as a top-level thread addressing it. Following this, they made one minor correction while keeping the outrageous claim we aren't a privacy project fully intact.
GrapheneOS (@[email protected])
The claims made about GrapheneOS in this interview are extremely inaccurate. It heavily misrepresents the purpose of GrapheneOS and what we've worked on for years. The claim GrapheneOS is a security project rather than a privacy project is misinformation. Contacts are specifically brought up and yet our Contact Scopes feature is ignored. @[email protected] knows GrapheneOS is a privacy project. He replied to a thread with our response to this misinformation only 4 days ago... https://piaille.fr/@projetslibres_podcast/116379561169492214
Podcast Projets Libres and Framasoft have closely worked with /e/ to promite it. /e/ is not a legitimate privacy project but rather one which fails to provide basic standard patches and protections while adding invasive services. These people are not legitimate privacy advocates.
/e/ isn't a privacy project but rather a digital sovereignty project. It receives millions of euros in funding from the EU with the goal of moving technology within the control of the EU. /e/ supports violating people's right to privacy as long as it's France and the EU doing it.
https://www.projets-libres.org/en/podcast/e-os-a-degoogled-android-gael-duval-e-foundation-murena/
> The European Union has subsidized us to the tune of several million for this project.
Murena sells products largely built with funding received from the EU. It's government funding being used to heavily enrich the shareholders of the Murena company.
Many European countries have a major issue with Apple preventing them from accessing user data by implementing strong security protections and strong end-to-end encryption. /e/ provides an option within their control which fails to keep up with basic privacy and security patches.
France's government and law enforcement have become extremely hostile towards disk encryption, end-to-end encryption and secure devices. Murena is trying to differentiate themselves from projects providing strong privacy and security while deriding those as being for criminals.
People shouldn't underestimate the harm which is going to be caused by them repeatedly telling people serious privacy and security are for pedophiles, criminals and spies. It's not a one time statement but rather a consistent narrative in years of their posts. This is a problem.
Murena and /e/ have been largely successful in how they've branded themselves despite lack of substance. Many people believe their false marketing. Governments now have an ally accepted within a lot of the privacy community which is saying strong privacy only helps pedophiles.
MasYou are oversimplifying things.
When you read Gaël Duval’s interview, that’s not what he’s saying at all.
He draws a distinction between data protection and data security (with which I disagree) by giving a crude example.
If you have to quote him because he's talking nonsense, at least quote something he actually said.
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Do you realize that you spend more time posting messages here about the crap other people do than sharing information about GOS ?
😮💨
@mas No, you're trying to twist what he said into something much less bad. His statements in the video about this are aligned with what he has repeatedly claimed about the GrapheneOS project. He has repeatedly claimed what GrapheneOS provides isn't useful to regular people and is only useful to people targeted by governments, particularly criminals. He has repeatedly tried to push the bogus claim that a large portion or even the majority of GrapheneOS users are criminals. It's more than 1 video.
@mas Our quote is accurate and so is the translation to English. We're addressing what he said and why he said it within the context of him repeatedly claiming GrapheneOS primarily benefits criminals and has no use for regular people.
You're demonstrating the need for us to make additional posts going through their past statements attacking GrapheneOS this way. You're complaining about how much we post about it while pushing us to elaborate on it and provide more quotes.
@mas They're waging an all out war on GrapheneOS. The false narratives being pushed about it have misled a very large number of people about it. Many people incorrectly believe GrapheneOS has poor usability and poor app compatibility because they've been misled about it. Anyone who pays attention to it knows that's not the case but that's not the point. They've similarly misled many people into believing that it's somehow not a privacy project. We spend a lot of time and energy dealing with it.
@mas The years of attacks on the GrapheneOS project by these groups are the main issue we face and the main thing holding everything back. It's incredibly pervasive. Many people actively seek out threads where people are asking about and talking about GrapheneOS in order to promote these products and mislead people about GrapheneOS. We can't address it on a case-by-case basis with how pervasive it is. /e/ supporters replying trying to spin things and attack us isn't going to deter us at all.
HybridStaticAnimate@mas @GrapheneOS The quote was exact and the meaning is clear. GOS wouldnt be posting so much about this if it wasnt happening. Youre trying to downplay it.
@HybridStaticAnimate @GrapheneOS
Read the article please :
"/e/OS permet à ses utilisateurs d’échapper à la collecte massive de données personnelles qui s’opère dans les smartphones du marché, pas d’aider les pédocriminels à passer sous les radars de la justice. Autrement dit : /e/OS n’est pas un système avec un objectif de sécurité durcie et qui serait utile seulement à des personnes ciblées"
or use another translation if need.
https://www.clubic.com/actualite-604786-murena-e-os-interview.html
"On arrive à un point de bascule violent" : le fondateur de /e/OS alerte sur la souveraineté - Interview
Gaël Duval a cofondé Mandrake Linux en 1998. Près de trente ans plus tard, le fondateur de Murena et de /e/OS n'a pas changé de combat, mais le monde, lui, commence à rattraper ses convictions.
@mas @HybridStaticAnimate The article is distinct from the video and isn't the same quote.
There's a history of posts with /e/ and Murena making these claims specifically about GrapheneOS which you're ignoring.
They've repeatedly claimed GrapheneOS isn't useful to regular people but rather only to criminals and spies. They've also repeatedly tried to imply most of the people using GrapheneOS are criminals. This is alongside their false claims that it isn't usable and isn't a privacy project.
Xtreix@mas @HybridStaticAnimate @GrapheneOS
"/e/OS permet à ses utilisateurs d’échapper à la collecte massive de données personnelles qui s’opère dans les smartphones du marché"
C'est faux.
"pas d’aider les pédocriminels à passer sous les radars de la justice. Autrement dit : /e/OS n’est pas un système avec un objectif de sécurité durcie et qui serait utile seulement à des personnes ciblées"
L'attaque contre les appareils / OS durcis est pourtant évidente, il suffit de lire.
Prétendre qu'un appareil / OS avec une sécurité et une protection de la vie privée renforcée ne serait utile qu'à des personnes ciblés est un mensonge qui dure depuis trop longtemps, la protection de sa vie privée est un droit universel.
GrapheneOS est ciblé par ses attaques parce qu'il s'agit du seule système d'exploitation mobile renforcé actuellement disponible, qu'il est un véritable projet de protection de la vie privée, que sa compatibilité avec les applications Android est la meilleur, et que tout le monde peut très facilement l'installer et l'utiliser, quiquonque a passé un peu de temps sur GrapheneOS le sait, sauf cas très particuliers qui ne repésentent pas du tout la très grande majorité des expériences des utilisateurs.
@Xtreix @HybridStaticAnimate @GrapheneOS
Ça s'appelle une hyperbole...
N'importe quel type d'une entreprise qui veut vendre son produit en fait, mais de dire qu'un appareil sécurisé est un appareil destiné aux pédocriminels ne sont pas les propos qu'il a tenus, c'est juste une interprétation.
@mas @HybridStaticAnimate @GrapheneOS
"Ça s'appelle une hyperbole..."
Non.
"N'importe quel type d'une entreprise qui veut vendre son produit en fait"
Hein ?
"mais de dire qu'un appareil sécurisé est un appareil destiné aux pédocriminels ne sont pas les propos qu'il a tenus, c'est juste une interprétation."
Transcription de ce qu'il a dit dans l'interview :
"Nous n'avons pas une approche "sécurité durci", nous ne développons pas un téléphone pour que les pédophiles puissent échapper à la justice."
Un peu après : "Nous ne vérifions pas la sécurité de la mémoire, ce genre de chose ultra sécu, qui pourrait quand même être utile pour des agents secrets, des dirigeants"
Ses propos sont claires, il prétend qu'une sécurité durci et une protection de la vie privée renforcée est utile aux criminels, espions et dirigeants, mais useless et sans intérêt pour les utilisateurs ordinaires, des tas de gens sont mal informé à propos de GrapheneOS à cause de cela.
Vous avez tout faux, et vous cautionnez ce genre d'absurdité.
Ichthyx@Xtreix @mas @HybridStaticAnimate @GrapheneOS +1 et Quand on est meme pas capable de mettre à jour son propre chromium/webview/navigateur, apeller ce que fais l'entiereté de toutes les entreprises du monde de la "sécurité durci". C'est quand meme drôle. ça serait peut bien de faire des lois sur les des base de la sécurité pour potéger les utilisateurs et mettre cet arnaqeur en prison. 🤣
manulstodon 
@Xtreix @mas @HybridStaticAnimate @GrapheneOS Cela lui permet d'avoir toutes les aides de l'UE et de la France
Martin@mas @GrapheneOS
The problem is that you can't have privacy without security.
If your phone gets stolen or you get arrested at the border in the US, Vietnam or Russia when you're visiting your wife's family. There's a chance that you didn't do anything wrong, doesn't mean that you would like these authorities to be able to enter your phone.
Whether they get to enter should be YOUR choice only.
And if you get your phone stolen, you probably want your passwords, banking and pictures to be safe.
The problem is that you can't have privacy without security.
If your phone gets stolen or you get arrested at the border in the US, Vietnam or Russia when you're visiting your wife's family. There's a chance that you didn't do anything wrong, doesn't mean that you would like these authorities to be able to enter your phone.
Whether they get to enter should be YOUR choice only.
And if you get your phone stolen, you probably want your passwords, banking and pictures to be safe.
Yes, I never said otherwise
Haystacks Tech@GrapheneOS irregardless of the technicalities of what people said or didn't say there does seem to be a general trend around the whole world to accept more surveillance and control. And as such it won't surprise me if people backed by mega-corps and gov's would continue to push the same narrative, just like they did during Covid. Get the jab-jab or get fired! And even go so far as to label non-conformance as criminal. Its the agenda-driven playbook 101. Create a crisis and force the solution!