That Microsoft has restored WireGuard's ability to release updates is good, sure.

But should we really accept a situation in which Microsoft was able to take it away in the first place?

Different people will have different takes, I appreciate, but so much power concentrated in the hands of one private commercial organisation seems... unwise.

The role of "gatekeepers" is nothing new, of course.

And regulatory discourse, in the UK and perhaps elsewhere, seems to be focussed on demanding ever more gatekeeping.

But with great power comes great responsibility, and the power for one company to deny software updates - a power which a company has recently exercised - seems to me to demand an incredibly high degree of responsibility. One which I am sceptical can be satisfied.

I saw a toot, a few weeks ago, which said words to the effect of "some people here seem unreasonably worked up about software and licensing".

It is nice to have fedizens who are not computer geeks. I welcome both of them with open arms.

But this is a good example of why I, personally, care about computing and software Freedom. It is not abstract or irrelevant.

I do not care for this kind of centralised control, even covered deftly in the wrapping paper of "user safety".

@neil

What about the wrapping paper of "justice"? As a lawyer.

I agree with your points, the question doesn't need to be taken solemnly.

@neil I suspect that the majority of folk want their things to ‘just work’. It used to be if you bought software it would have undergone decent QA testing, be designed by people that understood good UI design and on the rare occasion you’d need support it would be there. I’m not sure that’s the case any more…. Is open source the answer? In some cases yes (e.g. Open Office), in others (I’d argue a lot of Linux desktops) notsomuch. Ultimately, does it pass the grandmother test - could you install something and your grandmother could use it without needing continuous handholding - if it doesn’t then it will never be widely adopted…

@foxbasealpha

Yes, I want software to work - and it can't work if someone stops me from getting updates :)

(You might rephrase the bit about the "grandmother test", in favour of something less sexist / ageist!)

@neil Well, you’ll only get updates of open source software as long as their are people willing to maintain it. That’s a timebomb waiting to go off and will cause problems for commercial software too…
(Point taken - will think on how to rephrase in a neutral way)…

@foxbasealpha
> you’ll only get updates of open source software as long as their are people willing to maintain it.

Indeed. And if the current maintainer does not want to do it, and no other person wants to do it, and I cannot do it, and I cannot find anyone to pay to do it, then yes I have a problem. But I have far more options that if it were closed source.

But, crucially, the risk of someone being willing to do it, but a third party stepping in to block them, is also much lower.

@neil Microsoft and Apple’s gatekeeping hasn’t been that effective in keeping malicious actors away either - there’s been at least one case of compromised signing certificates introducing malicious code. I’m not convinced that it is done out of malice or even corporate interest, I think it’s done from a place of trying to keep the integrity of software. Supply chain compromises are real and increasingly common, but I suspect a lot of the reviews of third party developers have been automated and that’s where the intransigency kicks in…

@foxbasealpha @neil funny enough, I’ve been recommending Linux as a better alternative for grandmas for a couple of years now  
It think it works best for people who are either really into it (Linux enthusiasts) and for people with no tech literacy at all. You can set grandma up with a web browser and email program on Linux and she’ll never need OS help again. No bitlocker errors, pdf reader pop up ads, full page windows upgrade prompts, no way to stuff it up.

I think where Linux can fall flat is everybody else. People who need to use specific stuff that’s not in a web browser (art, streaming have been issues for me with Linux) games outside of steam, or competitive pvp games, music production and so on.

@Mudlark @foxbasealpha

> for people with no tech literacy at all. You can set grandma up...

Please do consider using less sexist, ageist language here!

@foxbasealpha @neil not sure of your background or experience. OO is not the answer, Libreoffice is better and most Linuxes are reasonably user friendly and support similiar software to their propriatary OS equivelents. Many Linuxes are easy to install (no harder than Windows) and a lot of desktops can be made to look like and behave like Windows although Xfce is so easy to use anyhow why would you?

@neil

If you check, unsigned code will give you a warning, but you can install it.

As compared to all the npm crap that installs without warning off github.

Trying to download an update to LittleNavMap usually triggers a warning, but I trust the author far more than most random stuff on github that's signed.

@neil I like to consider the Tyrant test, as illustrated by this paper in the Georgetown Law Journal: https://www.law.georgetown.edu/georgetown-law-journal/in-print/volume-110/volume-110-issue-2-december-2021/surveillance-and-the-tyrant-test/
Surveillance and the Tyrant Test

@neil
So made me smile when I read this: “It is nice to have fedizens who are not computer geeks. I welcome both of them with open arms.” 😊 Both of them!! 😂
@neil I am not in favour of it, but I don't know how we can stop it, what with our government deeply in bed with Microsoft and betting the economy on appeasing American tech giants.
@Rhube Oh, absolutely. It remains the direction of travel too, policy wise.
@neil @Rhube the French seem to be successfully dismantling the grip of M$ these days.. I hope the UK gov. is paying attention..
@Slash909uk @neil Alas, they don't want to. For some reason they think Big Tech will save them.

@[email protected] @Slash909uk @neil

The UK government publishes the required solution and its mandatory features. The supplier selects whichever compliant product fits within the allocated budget, provided it has a commercial support contract.

EDIT. It appears this was misunderstood. To clarify: the UK govt doesn’t mandate what product/license the supplier should use. Hence FOSS isn’t taking hold. The focus is only on meeting functional requirements

@_XCM @Slash909uk @neil This doesn't seem relevant to the discussion at hand. I'm muting this conversation, now.
@neil

"You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain"

Something a lot of companies would do well to remember.
@neil No, corposcum should see any authority they have systematically stripped away as intrinsically illegitimate and built on abusive relationships.
@lispi314 @neil no one should have power over my own devices except myself. full power, without exception

it's my machine, no one else gets to say what i do or don't do with it

@neil

What about VeraCrypt? 🥺

@neil

Considering the amount of investment that American tech companies are getting from anti-democracy outfits like Koch Network and from oppressive petrostate despots, it's prudent to move away from these platforms quickly.

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2026/feb/18/international-criminal-court-icc-judges-trump-sanctions

They're private companies. There's no such thing as civil rights or fair treatment when located in a despotic regime like Trump's.

Or #PrinceBonesaw 's regime.

https://www.justiceinfo.net/en/156691-how-sanctions-can-weaponize-us-tech-against-the-icc.html

https://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-google-hand-dissident-data-to-saudi-arabia-activists-say-2023-7

https://nypost.com/2023/07/24/microsoft-may-share-user-data-with-saudi-arabia-after-investing-2b-there/

Credit cards cancelled, Google accounts closed: ICC judges on life under Trump sanctions

Kimberly Prost and Luz del Carmen Ibáñez Carranza vow US reprisals will not affect work of international criminal court

The Guardian
@neil WireGuard should boycott Macroslop now.

@neil Actually, here's another (related) question. In the case of an open code signing arrangement, where you are able to install your own code signing certificate authorities instead of only being able to trust the one(s) that the operating system vendor provides, how do you prevent malicious actors from installing code signing CAs that you didn't want installed, and therefore able to run untrusted (by you) code?

It strikes me that neither scheme is without its problems.

@neil The UK Code of Practice on Apps and App Stores would be applicable here and contains provisions on the right to appeal etc. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/code-of-practice-for-app-store-operators-and-app-developers/code-of-practice-for-app-store-operators-and-app-developers-new-updated-version
Code of practice for app store operators and app developers (updated)

GOV.UK
The UK's updated voluntary code of practice for App Stores, whatever those are...

The UK government has updated its Code of practice for app store operators and app developers.

@DanielRThomas @neil would it? given it wasnt related to the app store but the driver signing portal?

@neil the perceived power is completely in our hands. We the people (users) have absolute control of who gets the power by the means of democracy. I see no reason why one would choose to use a proprietary operating system. Be it from any American tech giant. Proprietary means you choose to follow their rules. You chose to give up on your software freedom.

I have done my part. Now it's time for everyone else to stop using propriety operating systems and to contribute to libre ones.

@neil
You don't say.
@neil @ireneista MS casually took away the keys to kernel access on your own computer ago and we all just said nothing and let them do it,
@Li @neil "we" is doing a lot of work there, but yes, it's a shame that wasn't the end of their commercial viability
@ireneista @neil we as in the general populace but yea it is a bit
@neil Their operating system, their rules.