adb

it is a bit ironical to recommend #Signal, a centralized American service that runs on #Amazon, #Google and #Microsoft services and depends heavily on them spending millions each year just to pay to Amazon and then in an #European context recommend that as "digital independence"

Some people say it is a compromise, but the bar is way too low if you recommend Signal at the “digital independence day”. At this point It's about selling a feeling instead of actual accomplishment

#Europe #digitalindependence #diday #did #autonomy #freedom #Sovereignty

Apr 10 at 4:21pmWeb
Show threadAdhidarma Hadiwinoto 1d ago
@adbenitez I'm not an european, but I'm sure I'll be happy to see Europe digitally independent 👍👍👍👍👍
Show threadsecid 🇩🇪1d ago

@adbenitez
It might be ironical, but it is a first step away from WhatsApp, which is the nearly 100% alternative in Germany.
It might be a 10% step only away from total dependance but 10% is better than nothing And maybe - only maybe - we can built an European Signal (or Molly) later or convince people to change to Matrix or ... do something even better in future.
Nevertheless IMHO every little step counts and if the change to Signal is the only step accepted by most we should go this step.

#Europe #DiDay #Signal

Show threadadb1d ago

@secid yes, but instead of wasting time and effort into promoting Signal they could be promoting something else, for example, if you want to promote veganism you don't need to go suggesting sausage instead of steak as a first step, you could start by suggesting some vegan steak directly

not wasting years telling everyone how great sausages are and how much more ethical than steaks and then trying again to convince them to change

at some point people stop listening to you and will start thinking you are just a crazy guy that think they have got the time to be switching over and over and wasting their time learning new tools and spending time with computers

Show threadsecid 🇩🇪1d ago
@adbenitez
Just do it your way and I'll do it mine. We'll see who of us will be considered the crasy guy.
I tried both ways for nearly 10 years now and have a strong opinion which way works outside a small bubble of (positive) nerds although I _am_ one of the nerds.
Good luck.
Show threadadb1d ago

@secid well with Delta Chat some people are having good success and it has things that are better than Signal even, some people use Delta Chat because there they can have the family shopping list, or because kids can use it without SIM cards

or simply because it works way better with multi-device and multi-profile support, quite some people have lost their Signal chats and messages in a device migration 🤷

and any ways, the thing is, you might have some success changing people from WhatsApp to Signal, but just don't market it as "digital independence from US big corp" because that is just a plain lie

but good luck...

Show threadSteven Reed17h ago
@adbenitez @secid to some extent it's different threat models, isn't it? Whatsapp vs Signal is about dropping unethical features forced into the former, maybe higher likelihood of subverting E2E at the request of USgov, etc. Agreed there's plenty of people who would probably never consider DC for whom Signal is probably the best option. But it definitely doesn't solve the decentralization issue, so at minimum still vulnerable to deliberate or accidental outage etc.
Show threadblub15h ago
@adbenitez While I see and agree to your hints, I also have to note, that it was Signal that brought my family and friends away from WhatsApp. Not XMPP nor matrix due its complexity and lack of features / stability 
Show threadadb15h ago

@blub that is true, even today I don't think matrix nor xmpp is on a level where it is good to recommend to family and friends, but Delta Chat is pretty much on the same level as Signal while being even easier to onboard (no phone numbers no nothing, just set a name and go) and being decentralized and even a step further: multi-relay which means you don't depend on a single server but can even use several at the same time as relay nodes, this is better even than matrix and xmpp

and the UI is even better than Signal in some areas, read here:
https://mastodon.de/@adbenitez/116296807554783803

adb (@[email protected])

@[email protected] Delta Chat has channels (1-to-many like on Telegram), Signal doesn't Signal is centralized and hence much more easy to block, while Delta Chat can even work in intra-net and mesh networks Delta Chat can use several servers "relays" at the same time, do you remember that downtime with signal when #amazon or #cloudflare are down?? with Delta Chat if one of your relays go down you can keep chatting using the others (ex. people manage to use Delta Chat in Iran, Russia and China despite the strict network firewalls, if you go on vacations to China Signal will not work, Delta Chat will) Signal doesn't support using the same account in multiple phones, and multi-device with desktop is weak and still depends on the phone, with delta chat you can have several devices at the same time and it is super easy to add a second device each device in Delta Chat works as an incremental automatic full backup, while in signal you have to upload backups to some cloud and eventually pay for it when the backup is too big in Delta Chat you can have several profiles, as much as you like, easily separate your work profile (with more serious avatar and name) from your family profile where you can use more informal name and avatar etc you don't need phone numbers or any private data to use Delta Chat, onboarding is super easy, no SMS codes, no solving CAPTCHA like on Signal No strangers can discover you and send you spam or fishing in Delta Chat same for your family members, so it is a safer space for family chat #DeltaChat has offline-first in-chat mini-apps like games, collaborative text pads, checklist, shopping lists and other tools (all end-to-end encrypted without any 3rd party service hosting such apps, they live in the chat and only chat members can access them) in Delta Chat you can save messages in a "Saved Messages" chat, #signal also has "Note to Self" but what is superior in Delta Chat is that you can also jump from the saved/bookmarked message to the original message and see it in its chat context, in Signal it just forwards a copy of the message to the "Note to Self" chat and more, but this post is too long already

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