I don't own a car. I take public transit everywhere, and I do think personal vehicle use has real environmental costs. But I don't think driving is inherently unethical.

I live in Seoul, and the city makes transit easy for me. That's not a virtue. It's a condition I happen to benefit from. Some people live where transit barely exists, or where it doesn't get them to work, school, or care. In those places, driving is not optional.

The same is true of flying. In parts of Europe you can cross borders by train. In island nations, or in places with weak land connections, flying may be the only realistic option. “Just fly less” means very different things in those places.

A lot of what gets called my ethical choices comes from the conditions I live in. That makes me wary of turning structural failures into personal morality. If the alternative is missing or unusable, shaming people for not choosing it solves nothing.

When environmental harm gets framed as individual moral failure, attention shifts away from the structural changes that would actually matter. It's not an accident that oil companies spent decades popularizing the idea of the personal carbon footprint.

@hongminhee While I do agree with you in principle, I also think that certain personal choices can have a long tail of consequences that can be avoided. I find it good and necessary to make driving in places with good public transit very inconvenient. I do find it necessary to make local populations fight for more transit in more places. So it's not as simple as "countryside = driving". Why not increase living density wherever possible, so that transit and other sustainable options are possible?

@helenan @hongminhee

"Why not increase living density wherever possible"

right but that's not a personal choice

the only real personal choice that matters on questions like this is voting

if we don't vote, with these issues in mind, then we're culpable for our society failing us

otherwise, our personal choices still matter on questions like this as you say, but in smaller ways. larger structural issues are the dominant factor, influenced individually and personally, by our vote

@benroyce @helenan @hongminhee

I cannot stand when people have it in mind to tell others what to do, such as that they must move to the city and ride in a mass transit. I mean, who do they think they are, to tell people what to do?

You are right, just fricking VOTE!

VOTE! VOTE! VOTE!

@chemoelectric @helenan @hongminhee

the USA is terrible, it's so car-centric. even to the point of historically how auto manufacturers bought trolley lines for example just to shut them down forcing people into cars

but yes indivuals can't fix this. we as a society have to fucking show up and #vote on transportation policy. then the improvement

therefore, if we don't vote, *that* is the failure of personal responsibility, not if we move to a city or not to rid ourselves of cars

@benroyce @helenan @hongminhee

Brooklyn and parts of L.A. were big trolley towns. So in a perverse way it was appropriate when the ‘Trolley Dodgers’ moved to L.A. Though really they belonged in Philadelphia.

I’m in the Twin Cities where we built a light rail system. Though it doesn’t go by the baseball field. It does go near where there was a baseball field a hundred years ago.

@benroyce @helenan @hongminhee

I should say ‘either baseball field’, because we have both the Twins field and their AAA field.

@chemoelectric @helenan @hongminhee

minneapolis is a great fucking town. suffering greatly under trump. i don't think it's dampened your spirits, probably strengthened them

@benroyce I see businesses seeming to have put up rather solid steel fences and gates and think it must be to keep ICE out.