Mastodawn

@EUCommission Could you perhaps remind yourselves (through the policies you promote in the Member States) that privatising public healthcare turns the right to healthcare into a perverse by-product designed to enrich a select few, which has nothing to do with the ‘free market’ and even less to do with health?

Thank you!!!

@Ulmo @EUCommission How does the Commission "promote" health policy in the member statelets?

@Veza85UE @EUCommission Not health policies. But how resources for those policies are managed. It’s different, but it has a huge impact.

@Ulmo @EUCommission What resources do you think Ayuso would use for healthcare if only the impact of the European Commission's... guidelines (¿?) would let her?

Ulmo

@Veza85UE @EUCommission Put simply, you can either invest tax revenue in public spending or divert those funds to pay private companies to run both private and public hospitals, thereby reducing resources for the public health service (fewer staff, fewer beds). It comes down to political will and decision-making. And it is a matter of legislation and economic policy.

The decline in public services in general, and in healthcare in particular, has been exacerbated by such diversions of funds across Europe since the pandemic. And this is driven by EU-backed policies.

As for how these publicly funded companies operate through care ratios or the reuse of medical equipment, it’s best not to even mention it. Their aim is profit and the highest possible profit margin. Let us remember that a public service seeks to meet a community need or to ensure a right is upheld. Not to make a profit.

When you break your arm or have an accident and lose consciousness, you’re not thinking about who will provide you with the best service on the market. You want to be treated. Healthcare is the very opposite of what market competition is supposed to improve.

So the intention is not to improve the service, but to siphon off public resources to enrich certain players. It is a political and ideological decision driven by Brussels. This isn’t a recent development; it has been going on since 2008. The pandemic has exacerbated the situation in the area of public health.

@Ulmo @EUCommission I think we're in agreement on a lot here, probably north of 90% (there's emergency healthcare and there's health-nice-to-haves where market competition can and probably has improved outcomes, but I genuinely defer to your expertise). I mentioned Ayuso because at the core of my disagreement is this: "driven by Brussels". Who is "Brussels", particularly for health, foreign policy, taxation, defence, etc.?

@Veza85UE @EUCommission Brussels is in charge of the EU’s economic and monetary policy. And that is HUGE.

I can see you’re focusing on the wrong policies. You don’t need to suggest, or even ‘hint’, at what defence or health policies (over which it has no jurisdiction) should be pursued when you’re setting the guidelines on how resources should be used, or the economic and budgetary guidelines, or how those policies should be managed within a general framework and how they are funded.

@Ulmo @EUCommission Monetary (and there are caveats there too, on top of PL et al being out) is Frankfurt. On everything else, the guidelines on how resources should be used are written by lower level experts and advisors as they are in every administration anywhere, but the guidelines are decided by the member states governments without whom NOTHING moves in the EU. The ultimate decision maker is in the hummus room of the European Council. "Brussels"=member states, so... a disfrutar lo votado.

@Veza85UE @EUCommission Are you joking? Just because the European Central Bank is based in Frankfurt doesn’t make it a separate, alien entity. Are you telling me that the division of powers between the various European institutions is completely compartmentalised?

That the decisions taken in Brussels, Strasbourg or wherever the Council of Europe meets are made without any connection or planning whatsoever?

You must be joking. Right?

@Ulmo @EUCommission The Council of Europe is not an EU institution. The European Council = our heads of state and government, the executive decider of EVERYTHING in the European Union. They are "Brussels", no joke. That's the point, not that the decisions of our national governments are not planned. Read again: our governments are the EU, they are "Brussels", they make these guidelines, they make these decisions, there is no EU or Brussels as an external force alien to them.

@Veza85UE @EUCommission Of course. The EU is an amorphous entity that hovers over Europe without having the slightest influence on the policies of its member states.

Much less on monetary policy (over which member states have no say whatsoever) or, of course, in any way on economic policy.

Sure, of course. Save that story for someone else. You’ll excuse me for withdrawing from this nonsense. Read Article 13 of the TEU and perhaps I might deign to continue.

@Ulmo @EUCommission The member states MAKE that policy. The economic policy is dictated by member states in the European Council (executive) and the Council of the EU (legislative). #WTFistheCouncil

A disfrutar lo votado.

Rien 3h ago

@Veza85UE @Ulmo @EUCommission we will have to repeat this message over and over again: our own national governments are the executive power of the EU. Do not let them hide behind a fake story about 'what the EU is doing to them'.. they are cowardly stepping away from their own decisions (especially when there is some not so popular element in it, otherwise of course everything is their accomplishment).

Thanks @Veza85UE for your patience in calling them out!!

Veza85UE 2h ago

@rien @Ulmo @EUCommission 🫡

Ulmo 2h ago

@Veza85UE @rien @EUCommission Save the memes for X please. If you are not going to contribute anything, have the decency to behave like an adult.

@Ulmo @Veza85UE @EUCommission I like your passionate contribution, but would it hurt to keep it friendly and refrain from judgements about contributing anything when someone posts one meme you do not appreciate?

@rien @Veza85UE @EUCommission For God's sake, I'm telling you the same thing I told the person in the meme. If you're not going to contribute to the debate, step aside with dignity. As for those kinds of debates where people attack the speaker to divert attention from the topic (because they have no arguments), I already have the TV talk show hosts for that.

@Ulmo @Veza85UE @EUCommission see my other reply - I try to reason with you about the topic. AND I ask you to maintain a friendly tone. Not too much to ask for right?

@rien @Veza85UE @EUCommission I’m still really curious about how ALL the member states are privatizing healthcare (I just hope they don’t want an American-style healthcare system—God forbid such utter stupidity)—driven by the European Commission.

Considering how difficult it is to reach an agreement, as we’ve seen with our wonderful “ally” Trump, I’m fascinated by how this has been achieved at the European level.

@Ulmo @Veza85UE @EUCommission from my perspective we all make the same mistakes (austerity, privatizing healthcare etc) because at the time governments belief they have something to gain. And then the pendule goes further than intended.

(And it is my big frustration that we as voters chose political parties that advocate privatizing healthcare, budget cuts on public services and blame everything on migrants. And when these parties do as they said we are angry at the EU? Beats me..)

@rien @Veza85UE @EUCommission I completely agree. But that’s at the national level. Not to mention that the major parties (regardless of whether they market themselves as conservative or left-wing) ultimately act the same way on this issue.

But I still wonder what the Commission’s goal is in pressuring member states to privatize their healthcare systems. I suspect it’s an ideological and economic issue.

@Ulmo @Veza85UE @EUCommission agreed, a broad coalition of parties has embraced privatizing health care. (Not that the NHS is a big hit in the UK, but still I firmly believe privatizing has gone wat too far.)

Maybe member states ask the EU to put more pressure on this topic to enable the scrambling of additional budget for patching up our neglected armies and collective defense?

@Ulmo @Veza85UE @EUCommission could be ideological as well.. I think we lack political parties that outline a different vision for our countries and continent. Where values (What do we want for our citizens in terms of wellbeing) are more equal to economic outcomes when reforms of public services are on the table.

https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/deu/germany/military-spending-defense-budget

Veza85UE 57m ago

@rien I'm sure some governments ARE absolutely shameless enough to claim that, but it's not like it's a 2020s trend. For a lot of the big EU member statelets it does not track historically with their high spending on military eras from Cold War I (tho we're older now). Here's Germany, which used to spend 3,28% on defence in the early 70s.
EUropeans vote for (majority) right-wing governments who then do right-wing stuff. Not that complicated, IMO.

@Ulmo @EUCommission

Rien 49m ago

@Veza85UE @Ulmo @EUCommission aging populations and increasing costs in the future may also play their part. But agreed - we vote for parties that advocate these kind of policies.

Veza85UE 37m ago

@rien And then we talk about stuff like the European Semester as it was born fully formed out of Barroso's head and not conceived and legislated by *the member states* themselves (a literal amendment of a *Council* Regulation) which also have to approve every new iteration, as if the Commission dictates EUCO priorities in Council conclusions, not the other way around, etc.

@Ulmo @EUCommission

Ulmo 43m ago

@rien @[email protected] @EUCommission No, the issue of collective defense is a recent one: the “Trump effect.” This has been happening in a coordinated and planned manner for decades now (generally in the public sector, without touching healthcare); it accelerated starting in 2008, and with the pandemic, they shifted into high gear to dismantle public healthcare.

Rien 35m ago

@Ulmo @EUCommission fair enough, you are right. In my country these policies are implemented by succeeding governments made up of Liberals, Christian Democrats and even Social Democrats for a few years. Apparently most of us fell for the stories of cost reduction and we went after the short term gains (in perceived lower taxes or higher incomes). Now we pay the price for the downsides of these policies.

@rien @Veza85UE @EUCommission Of course, I’ll ignore that unfriendly comment in which you tell the other party how they should behave in a debate when faced with behavior that strays from the topic at hand.

@Ulmo @Veza85UE @EUCommission If you find my post unfriendly than I apologize, that's not my intention.

Veza85UE 1h ago

@Ulmo
Do you pay my bills?
Do you pay my internet bills?
Do you pay my server's bills?
If you don't, then maybe you can chill, cause you're not one of my server admins either, so... I'm pretty sure you don't get to have a say in how I reply to a reply from one of my followers. Or at least not a say anyone has to care about. Tranqui.

@rien @EUCommission

Ulmo 2h ago

@rien @Veza85UE @EUCommission Oh god, passing the buck to each other (the EU to the member states and these to the EU) while anyone who has read the EU treaty knows perfectly well that there are delegated powers where members cannot do even half.

The EU is an independent legal entity and acts on certain issues with broad powers. So much so that there is jurisprudence that has to be complied with and a national judge has to enforce EU law when it clashes with national law and according to the treaties he has preference. How the guidelines are implemented in the EU Member States does not get involved, obviously (please, the governments are the ones that know best and deal with the natives).

Then there are the governments that blame changes on the EU, when it has no powers.

Can someone then explain to me how the EU forced a Member State to reform its constitution, without a referendum and urgently?

Greece was a separate case that was literally dismantled in parts and sold to the highest bidder in those wonderful years of austericide (China especially). It really is healthy curiosity.

We EU citizens are the ones who are losing patience.

@Ulmo @Veza85UE @EUCommission My question is who delegated powers to the EU? It always were member states governments. We as a collective are the EU. For a lot of topics member States can still veto almost anything - look at wat Orban is capable of all these years.

As an EU citizen I want honest information from my politicians in stead of a blame game.

@rien @Veza85UE @EUCommission That’s basic. The treaty members.

We’re not disputing that. We’re talking about how the EU—which was created by the treaties—is pressuring its member states to privatize the public healthcare sector through the Commission and economic governance mechanisms such as the European Semester.

@Ulmo @Veza85UE @EUCommission
All right, I hope I am getting closer to understanding your perspective: I am also against the tendency to put all our faith in privatizing public services. Still my point remains that we as member states governments have created the treaties and decide on which subject and in which direction we submit ourselves to pressure from the EU. (See how member states where perfectly capable to curb policies in the pandemic or when farmers got angry about the Green Deal).

@Veza85UE @Ulmo @EUCommission

Ondřej Michálek 1h ago

@rien which is why we need a proper #europarl

@om @Veza85UE @Ulmo @EUCommission fair enough, we will continue to develop in this ever closing union. Simply because in the current geopolitical climate there is no alternative. If we trust in our small seperate nation-states the big power brokers and their dictators will pick us apart one by one.

@rien @om @Veza85UE @EUCommission No one is talking about breaking up the states. What we are talking about is limiting the power of a supranational entity—one that is increasingly out of touch with its citizens—to act as it pleases through economic pressures that ultimately harm the people.

@Ulmo @om @Veza85UE @EUCommission if the EU is out of touch with its citizens, that means member state governments are out of touch. That may be the truth and I am worried about that. Solutions are not found in resisting our supra-national institutions, but in training better politicians to stand up for policy choices and the trade-offs that they make. We need brave politicians that listen and TALK BACK. Not populist cowards who play a blame game and tell Fairy Tales.

@Ulmo @om @Veza85UE @EUCommission glad we agree about not breaking up the union by the way. Even corrupt Orban does not want to leave because he knows the alternative is way worse!